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05:35, 26th May 2024 (GMT+0)

[OOC] Chat.

Posted by FroggychumFor group 0
Zhao Li Hua
player, 140 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Mon 20 May 2024
at 23:31
  • msg #371

Re: [OOC] Chat

Well this is an interesting chat. Nice to have it

So as far as I know duelling is a modern invention. By modern in this game we mean 'in the last 1200 years'. During the bronze age we don't have historical records or indications of duels. And by duel I mean 'I will meet you at <time> with some rules and formalities and legal protection/support in some way'. The earliest I am aware of are the Vikings with their Holmgard

Sure there were personal disputes that occasionally degenerated into violence. The law didn't recognise these in any way (unlike later medeival duels of the kind so common in movies and books). There were gladiatoral games in cultures like the Romans but these were set pieces with slaves usually. Or prisoners

The closest really was 'on the battlefield there were codified ways that heroes could meet'. This is in fiction of course (homeric duels). There's a possibility that this happened in reality, but we have no records either way.  There were also ways that you could have a trial by combat if all other mechanisms were not open to you in some legal discussions, but we don't have many (if any) records of them.

Given that duelling is basically a mechanism for formalised bullying, I think the ancients had it right!

As for life being cheap, that's very true. Still in many bronze age cultures the penalty for murder was death (Egypt for example). It probably isn't murder if a high ranking person kills a low ranking )different thing to what we are talking about - the high ranking person isn't subject to weapon control) but even then there is usually a cost.
Kavian Aminar
player, 51 posts
Urban Youth
Gambler
Tue 21 May 2024
at 00:08
  • msg #372

Re: [OOC] Chat

Just some things to consider. There is nothing new under the sun. Mankind behaves today like they always have. Look at what we have now to see what things were like then. The same root, the same problems, the same motivations and behaviors. Some different methods over the years to make it better.

On another note, I'd like a private thread for Kavian. I'll wrap up some things in the Abarion thread.
Kavian Aminar
player, 52 posts
Urban Youth
Gambler
Tue 21 May 2024
at 00:20
  • msg #373

Re: [OOC] Chat

Oh, the Epic of Gilgamesh. 2100BCE, Gilgamesh engages Endiku in a formal challenge to resolve a conflict over a woman and Gilgamesh's behavior. Technically a duel is just a formal challenge, I don't think we can put a date on how far back that goes. Even if the story is fictional the concept of a duel is understood.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:21, Tue 21 May.
Kavian Aminar
player, 53 posts
Urban Youth
Gambler
Tue 21 May 2024
at 00:33
  • msg #374

Re: [OOC] Chat

Zhao Li Hua:
And by duel I mean 'I will meet you at <time> with some rules and formalities and legal protection/support in some way'. T


But to your point, yes is doesn't fit this particular definition. But, most dictionary definitions of a duel are just "formal, single combat, prearranged, and conflict resolution."
Ahirom Fuligin
player, 8 posts
Treasure Diver
Resistance Leader
Tue 21 May 2024
at 00:34
  • msg #375

Re: [OOC] Chat

In terms of in the 'historic record' record of the three kingdoms (not romance of the three kingdoms) noted a few duels and was written like 300 ad or so
Kavian Aminar
player, 54 posts
Urban Youth
Gambler
Tue 21 May 2024
at 00:36
  • msg #376

Re: [OOC] Chat

I think literature is also a valid source, not just historic record. It was literature because everyone understood what a duel was, because it happened.
Froggychum
GM, 318 posts
Tue 21 May 2024
at 01:17
  • msg #377

Re: [OOC] Chat

Yea- If we're talking about if the concept of duels existed, even fiction is valid - because it's just about the idea not how specifically often it happened or anything else.

Generally, in my mind duels is a cultural thing. Some cultures will have it, others wont. At least, that will be true in this world since it adds more character to certain societies.

Duels are probably a thing in Ghanbar and Kri Tan , though they have very different roots and are far less common in Ghanbar. Ghanbar would only have nonlethal duels, though "mistakes" might sometimes be allowed to happen.

Kri Tan would have duels of countless kinds, not just physical fights. Some may be private, others may be public spectacles. Much more like a 'challenge' against an opponent's skill or sense of honor.

Sedoria does not have duels in any capacity. Challenging someone to a fight is 'disturbing the peace' or just 'violence'. If you want a legal justification to beat up or kill the bastard who did something unforgivable to you, that's too bad (just like in modernity, LOL).
Zhao Li Hua
player, 141 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Tue 21 May 2024
at 05:07
  • msg #378

Re: [OOC] Chat

I considered the epic of gilgamesh :) A super story very much in line with this game. But it was just a 'look we're going to meet and kill each other'. There was no legal substance behind it. It was very much in line with the Homeric duels I felt. Homeric duels are 'romantic duels on the battlefield'

The duels in China are not nearly as formalised and ritualised as we think of it. Chinese imperial law (note previous paragraph) typically did not condone dueling. The legal system was designed to maintain social order and punish acts of violence. Engaging in unauthorized duels could result in heavy legal penalties including execution.  The judicial system emphasized investigation and trial procedures to resolve disputes. While personal combat might occur, it wasn't legally sanctioned and could lead to severe consequences for the participants. Like today China was heavily into weapon control to control the masses

Note that in the three kingdoms all the duels I am aware of took place on the battlefield. Again this is the 'Homeric duel'. A fictionalisation of the conflict, personalising for the reader. Making a great story (and it does)

Anyway it's an interesting chat. I like the conclusion the GM came to
Asherah
player, 103 posts
Not so Little Scamp
Tailor's Apprentice
Tue 21 May 2024
at 05:12
  • msg #379

Re: [OOC] Chat

Why does there need to be legal substance behind it in order for it to be a duel?

Also one could argue that since Gilgamesh is king and agreed to it, it was official in the eyes of the 'law'. Because he was king and therefore the law.
Zhao Li Hua
player, 142 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Tue 21 May 2024
at 05:22
  • msg #380

Re: [OOC] Chat

For example
The meaning of DUEL is a combat between two persons; specifically : a formal combat with weapons fought between two persons in the presence of witnesses


I was talking about the kind of duels that Kavian was talking about in his fencing. Legally allowed, formal and ritualised duels. You are quite right we can use the word to mean any dispute including a couple of people getting into and argument in the street and stabbing each other. But what I was talking about was the legalised use of weapons as that was in the context of the chat.

And just talking and chatting about it. Really happy with the GMs summary.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:57, Tue 21 May.
Leander
player, 17 posts
Way too handsome
Aspiring soldier
Tue 21 May 2024
at 09:38
  • msg #381

Re: [OOC] Chat

Holy Wall of Text, Batman! I'm debating whether reading War and Peace or the last page or two of this OOC thread would be quicker...
Zhao Li Hua
player, 144 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Tue 21 May 2024
at 09:45
  • msg #382

Re: [OOC] Chat

Ah we were just chatting. There is little of significant Leander.

And er... war and peace is hard going. Very hard going
Kavian Aminar
player, 55 posts
Urban Youth
Gambler
Tue 21 May 2024
at 11:37
  • msg #383

Re: [OOC] Chat

Zhao Li Hua:
You are quite right we can use the word to mean any dispute including a couple of people getting into and argument in the street and stabbing each other. But what I was talking about was the legalised use of weapons as that was in the context of the chat.


Legal has more to do with the official and social response to dueling, not the definition of a duel. A street fight is not a duel. Formal and prearranged just means rules. Rules means fairness and honor or the conflict resolution is tainted. Witnesses just ensure and confirm the fair and honorable part, prearranged helps with this.

Your observation that most of the record of legalized dueling is more modern is valid for the context of your examples, I hear you.

For the sake of the weapon control conversation, just knowing that dueling is an old problem predating recorded history. Cultures have different approaches to the problem, weapon control can be one of them. I think this is why some cultures have more of it than others, stricter consequences will result in less dueling. A side consequence of less dueling is more cloak and dagger, no less violence or killing.

Records have an expiration date so to speak, they don't last long so there will be a wealth of more recent examples. In the span of human existence record keeping is a fairly new advancement, we spent longer using oral traditions. Vey primitive tribal cultures living stone age lifestyles, that we still have living among us, have ritual combats. The Enga, Huli and the Dani tribes in Papua New Guinea, some indigenous tribes living in the Amazon rainforest, such as the Yanomami and the Matsés, some tribal communities in Africa, such as the Maasai in Kenya and Tanzania, have historically engaged in dueling as part of their cultural traditions.
Froggychum
GM, 319 posts
Wed 22 May 2024
at 11:53
  • msg #384

Re: [OOC] Chat

Hey everyone, I'm taking a day off today.

Last few days in the Abarion thread have been really intensive, and I don't feel like I followed the events too well.
So, I'm gonna take a day off to recharge.

I'll be back tomorrow.

Here's my current to-do list:

1. Create Kavian's HQ thread
2. Reply to Li Hua & Asherah (please dont oversaturate it before I can get there, it will throw the dialogue flow out of whack)
3. Ahirom (Tybe) & Leander (Mutiny) - but they havent posted yet.
4. Still waiting to see if Ulle has ghosted / dropped out. Hopefully he's okay IRL, I know the guy from elsewhere and have a positive opinion of him.

Also, I always try and make answering PMs my #0 priority. Just FYI

-

Sorry for any inconvenience!
I'm off to play the new GW2 content update (and hopefully do my overdue chores too, lol)
Froggychum
GM, 320 posts
Fri 24 May 2024
at 10:33
  • msg #385

Re: [OOC] Chat

This one day off has sort of become 2 or 3 days.

I'll get Kavian's thread up right now at least (it wont be very fancy), but I'm too sleep deprived atm to do any roleplay.

When I next wake up (probably gonna be many hours from now) I'll try and respond to Tybe and Abarion (Mutiny will probably have to wait a bit longer)

Sorry for the sudden delays !
Froggychum
GM, 323 posts
Sat 25 May 2024
at 01:24
  • msg #386

Re: [OOC] Chat

Responded to Abarion thread! Feel free to reply at your leisures.

Also, a note for everyone: Please strictly avoid introducing any ideas relating to supernatural elements, even if you intend for them to just be cultural ideas.

This is important for reasons relating to the world setting. I'm being very careful with how I introduce players to the ideas of supernatural elements and that includes their cultural background. If you have questions about what sort of supernatural elements are present in your culture, ask me, but please don't introduce them yourself - this will likely cause issues to appear.

(dont worry about any previous instances of this, I will make it fit by force if needed)

Thnx



EDIT -
Also, probably no reply to Tybe today. Sorry!
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:24, Yesterday.
Asherah
player, 105 posts
Not so Little Scamp
Tailor's Apprentice
Sat 25 May 2024
at 06:09
  • msg #387

Re: [OOC] Chat

Hey! Sorry for the sudden silence! I should have a reply up tomorrow!
Froggychum
GM, 324 posts
Sat 25 May 2024
at 06:12
  • msg #388

Re: [OOC] Chat

No problem lol

I'm having sleep troubles again, so my posting will probably be a bit haywire until I get this fixed :-(
Zhao Li Hua
player, 147 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Sat 25 May 2024
at 06:13
  • msg #389

Re: [OOC] Chat

Oh the GM asked you for a sudden silence. So that worked perfectly (he said 'don't post for a bit until I have').
Froggychum
GM, 324 posts
Sat 25 May 2024
at 10:26
  • msg #390

Re: [OOC] Chat

That was mostly so the conversation didn't run away from me so much like the last one did. It's not hard to follow a dialogue if its short, but when there's several to dozens of posts to look at, I end up skimming to save time - which means I don't comprehend things as well. If I were more patient, it wouldn't be a problem.

Another issue with it is that conversations are usually fluid, so if you address an NPC, move topics, address him again, then move to a third topic - it makes it so I have to respond to each point individually - which interrupts the whole flow.

Not major problems, anyway - just a request to make it easier on me haha

~~

@Abarion - Will respond as needed, but I'm going to focus less on this thread then I have been since the postrate likely won't be as crazy as it was for a bit there.

@Tybe - Will respond when I have the energy. Hopefully soon.

@Mutiny - Will respond after responding to Tybe. Will try not to delay long.

@Kavian - I'm waiting for you to initiate in the HQ thread. If you want me to initiate, let me know. I'm a bit OOTL, TBH.

~~~

Everyone, at the moment I'm a bit worried. I think Ulle may no longer be participating. I've sent a private message, but there's been no login for nearly 3 weeks.

I'm not going to kick him or anything, but it's possible he won't return. If he doesn't, I'm going to make Ulle an NPC since his Eternal Existence ability has already been determined/revealed.

Having 1 NPC per continent is fine (i technically have 5 npcs but only sig will be used. The others are NPCs because they do exist in the world, just not as Eternal Existences)

~~~

Also, some info about your EE powers:
 - I've already decided Sigismund, Ulle, and Li Hua's powers (Ithink i've alr sent this with you, but if i havent let me know and i will if u ask)
 - I'm beginning the process of designing Kavian's, Ahirom's, Asherah's and Leander's. When I'm done, I will send you a PM containing the info which you can share or keep to yourself. If you don't want me to reveal the ability to you until the first time it activates, let me know here or in PMs.

In truth, EEs are rather tight on design space. I'm trying to keep everyone's powers distinct and interesting, so it is taking time to come up with good ideas. I think at most it would be possible to have about 10 or 15  total EEs without getting redundant, but honestly they are all pretty similar in the first place  -- which is intentional

It doesnt help that some good ideas are alr in use by NPCs , but it cant be helped.
This message was last updated by the GM at 10:26, Yesterday.
Zhao Li Hua
player, 148 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Sat 25 May 2024
at 10:14
  • msg #391

Re: [OOC] Chat

I don't think I have a power list or anything.

We did chat about immortality and IIRC you changed my suggestion to something similar. I don't know OOC (and am good with that... I'd rather find out IC) what it actually is

I'd rather find out I if that's OK. Keep it a surprise :)
Froggychum
GM, 325 posts
Sat 25 May 2024
at 10:27
  • msg #392

Re: [OOC] Chat

My lips are sealed!
...
wait, do frogs have lips?

---

Edit - Alright! I've finished everyone's Eternal Existence abilities. I'm quite happy with them.

Let me know if you want me to PM you with the details. I have the full versions in my scratch pads, but I may send edited versions if some details of the ability would spoil too much about the setting.

---

Also, here is Sigismund's ability, which I think is already posted somewhere but I've made slight edits:

quote:
Character: Sigismund
EE Concept: "Return to Prime"
~EE Description~

Sigismund always returns to his peak condition in all aspects. There are no limits to what can be reversed this way, but the speed is always equivalent to the inverse of the degeneration rate.

The effects of this ability will not trigger until after his first death. After his first death (and only for the first death), he will IMMEDIATELY return to his peak condition, which will become the focal point of his ability in the future

This message was last edited by the GM at 10:54, Yesterday.
Asherah
player, 106 posts
Not so Little Scamp
Tailor's Apprentice
Sat 25 May 2024
at 13:21
  • msg #393

Re: [OOC] Chat

Darn it I cant decide, I love a good suprise but I also really want to know.
Zhao Li Hua
player, 149 posts
Noble Swordswoman
Wandering the World
Sat 25 May 2024
at 13:29
  • msg #394

Re: [OOC] Chat

I had that too :) So I rolled a die to decide
Ahirom Fuligin
player, 10 posts
Treasure Diver
Resistance Leader
Sat 25 May 2024
at 14:25
  • msg #395

Re: [OOC] Chat

I am good with it being a surprise or even if it is never explicitly stated, that would be interesting.
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