Some concepts become unplayable if you don't have reasonably high points to spread around multiple stats, for instance (competent) Jedi become very hard to make if you can't have two decent stats (Charisma for UtF and Wisdom for Force Powers) and really need at least three (Dex or Str for lightsaber'ing).  Any kind of straight up combat build will need at least two good stats, dex or str for fighting and con for HP.

At 20 a player could have one good stat at 16 (and the rest at 10) or two barely-adequate stats at 14 (and the rest at 10).  You could conceivably get a 16 and a 14 by dumping your other stats and being incompetent at everything except your core niche.  But in general, higher point values don't give you super-stats (Until you reach ludicrous levels), they let players broaden out.  The difference between 20 and 28 would essentially be two 14s and a 16 instead of one of each, letting players avoid crippling overspecialization and making Jedis playable as force-users with lightsabers, rather than having to be either force-users or lightsaber users.

I always viewed the stat requirements as a limiting factor for Jedi. Because between powers and feats etc. they can quickly overshadow other players, forcing them to divide their stats seems like a good balance.

Jack of all trades, master of none at least on the opening build.

16's are supposed to be super rare, and 18's should be unheard of but if the book says 25 I'm comfy with that. I tend to rely on the books recommendations quite often because they're the ones that have gone through play testing and created all teh maths behind the system and know what makes or breaks their game (in theory).

When in doubt, go by the book! For a multi GM game like this, defaulting to the books and errata is most likely going to be in everyone's best interest. It means that the stormtrooper stat block, for example, is (should be) balanced against all the PC's thus preventing a lot of work for the GM's.

It has been my experience of running Star Wars games on rpol over the years that players want epic games.  They don't just want super stats of point buys of 32 or higher, they want the super levels to go with them.  Best starting level I've ever seen a GM give out is 8th.  But the way I see it, players want more.  The reason why I see it more in Star Wars than in other games is because of the Destiny System.  Destinies set up epic storylines.  Ergo, characters need to be equally epic.  People tend to forget that Luke Skywalker was like a 3rd level character when he blew up the Deathstar.  Players just want to be every bit as cool as Boba Fett.

I don't know, Kato.  I don't necessarily agree.  If you've got a decent set of players they won't necessarily be as power-hungry as you're describing.  I've run games that started out at third level on a regular basis.  Sometimes fifth if the storyline requires it.

I don't think I've ever seen players turn down levels.
The big reason for starting level 8 is that you're into your PrC. In a community system like this I don't think that having everyone start at that kind of level would be a good idea at all.

Personally, starting at a lower level allows characters to grow far more organically. I like blowing through the first couple levels quickly so that you have the organic growth but still achieve a respectable power level in a reasonable time frame.

From my point of view:

Low level games tend to be silly, because odds are, the GM or the playerbase will dissolve due to RL long before any of that 'organic growth' occurs.

Don't say you haven't seen it happen. It will. Almost every time. On RPol, it's best to view it as, whatever level you start the players at, you can't count on giving the players any more then 2 more levels before your game self destructs. Any farseeing beyond that, and you should put your crack pipe down.

As for stats...many characters are just more fun with great stats. Jedi, especially. Because for a jedi, int is the dump stat, and then you've got those endless no skill jedi running around. 32 (or even higher) point buy is never a bad idea. I wouldn't mind even doing something like a 40 point buy. (You're heroes, damnit!) Of course, if you're throwing 40 point buys around, your objective should be 'the PCs are supposed to fight Darth Vader and win.'

In a game with me as GM... if you start a fight with Vader, you will lose. You can beat Vader, but not through combat strength. Vader has shown himself to be easily distracted and not the sharpest tool in the shed so you can 'win' in an encounter with him through wits or skills. However, he will school you in combat. So will an episode VI Luke. If you have 40 pt buy, so do they.

Heroic games are great, no doubt about it. But level is not what keeps a game together. I've seen just as many level 1 games dissolve as I have level 8-16. Yes I've played in a start-up level 16 game on rpol. It lasted less than 6 months and I blame it mostly on players not being invested in their characters. Flip side of that is that I'm also running a game right now that has been around for a couple years, if I remember correctly, and everyone is still level 2. *shrug* The players are as determined as I am to keep it running and so it does, despite extended lapses.

Player and GM interest is what keeps games going. Not the power level of the game.

Nah. See, I don't increase the powerlevel of the bad guys. If you have a 40 point buy, I expect you to do something truly extraordinary with it...like take Vader on in direct combat. Vader as written in the book vs. you and your buddies. You can have these cool stats. You can have your levels. But I will play him to the best of my considerable strategic ability. (And even if the PCs do take take him down, I'll make sure he takes at least a couple PCs with him when he goes).

It's like, in Final Fantasy, powerleveling the PCs to face a superboss they shouldn't be able to beat, except through far too much leveling up and training.

My mistake, I misread your post. I missed how your were purpose building with the 40 pt buy. I was thinking you were meaning for just a standard game in which case 40 is a little over the top. But then if you're playing a Force Unleashed type game 40 pt is almost a requirement.

Agreed.  I normally don't consider character growth a possibility in a normal game, having seen it only three times in the past ten years of online gaming.  When I see a GM boast of a game that's going to go from level 1 to level 20 I quietly snort and delete the game from my sticky list unrequested.  Even my best game only made it 8 levels and that took half a decade and some of the most devoted players I've ever seen (coincidentally some of the oldest players as well, we agreed that, as we were a bunch of geezers, we probably had more staying power than college kids that have to drop out of the game due to exams).

I enjoy powerful characters quite a bit, partly because they're so rare and most DMs think making low level players run from Vader is fun.  But as long as the GM fairly discloses what kind of game it is going to be I have no objections to any given playstyle, though I viscerally don't 'get' a lot of horror tropes so I avoid horror games because I won't understand them.  Then again I came to RPing via Shadowrun, a game where it's well established that a group of just-generated characters can, in fact, kill the strongest dragon in the world in one round before it can react if they plan sufficiently and use good enough tactics.  That kind of stuff doesn't happen in Star Wars so I have to tone it down at times.

FYIL I don't really care. RoA starts at 3, the SWEC started at 3 before.

I will put it to a vote, we will give it to end of Jan before opening the doors on everything.

Here's how voting goes. I open a new thread and you vote Yeah or Nay. Do not duplicate posts, do not talk. Anything but your vote is deleted.

I'll tally here and give periodic totals.

Sound good?

I'd like to suggest that we cap level eight characters to one per player. Then have any additional characters start at level three or four.

That makes sense. A Jedi 7/Knight 1 might well have a level 3 or 4 padawan learner (Jedi 3 or 4) following him around. That's completely within movie canon.

Or a level 8 astromech might have a level 3 or 4 C3-PO unit as a wacky sidekick.

Does anyone know if we are still able to submit pictures for inclusion to the character portraits?

Yes. The portrait posse updates around the end of each month.

Has there been any decisions on how many points are given for Point Buy? Core book says 25, ive read somewhere 32 points. I myself am fond of the 28 point buy fiscussed earlier, as it leaves just a little more room than to overspecialize

So far, the level thread is split pretty evenly, 6 to 5 in favor of 'yes'.

Which seems to me to suggest there's room enough for a level 8 game and a low level game, and the people who like each can just go to the appropriate game.

I consider 32 baseline...I won't play in games that have too little points. A character should be a hero, not an everyman.

But it seems to be all PC's saying they wish to be higher level. The question is does anyone want to run a game at higher level?

i'd love to participate in a game of higher level, but i also wouldn't mind one at lower levels either. Basically, i just want to participate in a game ^_^;;

I had been kicking around an idea for a game based on 2-10 to Yuma.  The task and the opponents being what they are, it only makes sense that the players would have to be real Jedi Knights and real Bountyhunters.  It's just not the sort of thing where you would send wannabes.

In reply to GM Samurai Kato (msg # 872):

if it takes real jedi knights then i have a great character concept in mind already, one based on counter attacks and such. :)

I saw Kato's ad. He specifically said Force Sensitives were verboten, so he can't take any more full on jedi.

Speaking of Jedi...has anyone considered giving them Lightsaber Deflect and Lightsaber Block free?

They're a little too 'absolutely must have' to allow for much variety in jedi if everyone has to take the same thing.

That is the question indeed, the poll should be weighted towards GMs.

On the other hand most GMs want to run games players want so at the least this is useful to them to find out what people are looking for.  Personally I don't mind low levels but very low levels (as in level 1 or 2) make me feel like my character is too incompetent to be a hero and my interest wanes.