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16:22, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Polls and Debates.

Posted by The WatcherFor group 0
Meta
GM, 59 posts
"We look...at the things
which are not seen..."
Thu 27 May 2021
at 19:12
  • msg #52

Polls and Debates

I have made an updated and reformatted version of Midnight's Character Dashboard, including ages and labels, in case folks need a reference:  link to a message in this game

EDIT: I have added a post reordering characters by suggested groupings.  It makes things lots easier to keep track of.  Enjoy.  :)
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:21, Thu 27 May 2021.
Meta
GM, 61 posts
"We look...at the things
which are not seen..."
Thu 27 May 2021
at 21:32
  • msg #53

Polls and Debates

The last word from Steel Ninja in his character creation thread discussed Outsider, so I have tentatively updated the list accordingly...
Steel Ninja
player, 23 posts
Age 17
Brain
Thu 27 May 2021
at 23:15
  • msg #54

Polls and Debates

I will go ahead and stick with Brain unless someone would like me to switch it up.
Meta
GM, 62 posts
"We look...at the things
which are not seen..."
Thu 27 May 2021
at 23:36
  • msg #55

Polls and Debates

OK, I have updated the lists accordingly.  :)
The Watcher
GM, 168 posts
Knows All, Sees All
Fri 28 May 2021
at 07:36
  • msg #56

Polls and Debates

Belated quote from Bullpen

quote:
quote:
Maybe alphanumeric teams? :P 1A, 1B, 1C for the first years, 2A, 2B, 2C for second years, etc. Just a silly idea - not sure if school classes in English-speaking countries have alphanumeric designations like they do here anyway.


I like it, Counterforce. :-)

Max
player, 64 posts
Age: 16
The Delinquent
Fri 28 May 2021
at 13:52
  • msg #57

Polls and Debates

Hey all, I had some alternate ideas for the school that I pushed to Watcher, and he asked me to put them here to see what you think:

I had some ideas that might take it in a bit of a different direction, but don't want to step on your toes.

My basic thought was that school should actually be quite small (vice multiple campuses as you postulated). The thought is that the Illuminati are meant to work in secret, so having multiple campuses doesn't really fit that goal.

Rather, there are numerous super-schools out there (Xavier School for the Gifted, Hellfire Club's School, etc), likely associated with the various big groups (X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hellfire Club, SHIELD, an Inhuman school on the moon, etc). Conveniently, each of the schools associated with superhero teams, along with SHIELD, have their leader as a member of the Illuminati.

The Illuminati pick certain students from their schools (or in Dr. Strange's case from their mystic pursuits, such as Gateway) and choose them for the Illuminati school (The Stanley School for Special Students). In fact, I would have every player add one more question to their backstory; why were you chosen for The Stanley School for Special Students?

Going this route, there are a then a couple of options; either the students are transferred fully to S4 (as the instructors call it) but officially remain on the "books" of their original school, or perhaps they remain students at their original school but have certain "electives" at S4.

In addition, I would recommend adding a Door to Atlantis, since Namor is a member of the Illuminati, and to the Blue Area of the Moon since Black Bolt is a member. Also, I'd love for some of the NPC students to be Inhumans and Atlanteans to bring in that dynamic.
Counterforce
player, 76 posts
Svetlana Kragova, 15
The Brain
Fri 28 May 2021
at 17:00
  • msg #58

Polls and Debates

Ah, so the idea is that right now we are being recruited for those schools, but later we are picked for that other school? Possibly partly as a result of them observing our interactions during this event.

It does make sense to me. The main objection would be that it might be overcomplicated, but if everyone is on board with it then it's not really a major issue. Also, whichever option we go with, I would prefer us to spend most of our time in the same school. Otherwise, I feel like the school side of the game would be weaker. So I would prefer it if we were fully transferred with minimal time spent in our original schools, if that is how we do it. I also like the idea of posing the question.
Max
player, 65 posts
Age: 16
The Delinquent
Fri 28 May 2021
at 19:20
  • msg #59

Re: Polls and Debates

Counterforce:
Ah, so the idea is that right now we are being recruited for those schools, but later we are picked for that other school? Possibly partly as a result of them observing our interactions during this event.

Exactly. And the reason we're picked could be anything. For Counterforce, it could be that they don't entirely trust her and want to keep an extra eye on her. For Gateway it might be because Dr. Strange wants a more direct hand in his training, etc.



Counterforce:
I would prefer us to spend most of our time in the same school. Otherwise, I feel like the school side of the game would be weaker. So I would prefer it if we were fully transferred with minimal time spent in our original schools, if that is how we do it. I also like the idea of posing the question.

Yep, I agree this is probably the better option, just wanted to throw a couple out. And regardless, all of the "on screen" time should definitely be at the school with our team.

Oh, and one other question we should have everyone answer; who is your sponsor? Everyone will have a "sponsor" from the Illuminati; either Namor, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Black Bolt, Doctor Strange, Professor X, or Nick Fury. The easiest answer is this will be based on the school you pick, but doesn't have to be.
Ricochet
player, 93 posts
Sasha Struck, age 16
The Bull
Fri 28 May 2021
at 21:57
  • msg #60

Re: Polls and Debates

It seems to me that might make it difficult to have a class of newbies after us. If we sign up with these schools, then get chosen throughout the school year to start at S4, that doesn't leave a lot of time afterward. Honestly, I'd be fine with not having a newer class until Next Season. (Though I do think we should have at least one established team of NPC rivals/adversaries/pretty much villains. Every school needs bullies, after all.)
The Watcher
GM, 172 posts
Knows All, Sees All
Sat 29 May 2021
at 08:20
  • msg #61

Re: Polls and Debates

I'm enjoying this engaging discussion on alternate team structures, purposes, locations and memberships.  And this is the PERFECT time to have such a discussion, the game is still in a 'wet cement' state.  It can be changed now with very little disruption if that is what we wish.

There is something you should know.  In idle moments, I enjoy thinking up settings for Masks (as well as other RPGs).  As Masks has been out for several years now and I have both played and run the game, I have a whole bunch of campaign ideas.  Not all of these ideas will fit into every game.  But that is fine.
What this does mean is that I can casually write a few paragraphs spontaneously on any given subject in the Marvel Universe.

So me writing a few paragraphs on any given Marvel feature is not a huge investment of imagination or effort.  And nothing ever defined and described for a game is ever wasted.  Sooner or later, it will be used and useful.  It may not be the use you had in mind at first but it will have still have been worth the time.

What I'm saying, in a sentence (well, with the help of the paragraphs above also ;-) ) is that don't feel guilty asking me to change something if you don't like it.  My time hasn't been wasted whatever happens.

Let me explain a little about why I made some initial decisions for the game.

1. More than any other mainstream superhero setting, Marvel really stresses the normal 'school' aspect of teen supers.  This is usually a boarding school (so the characters interact with each other more) setup with the best example being the X-Men.

2. The game could have been the newest and youngest branch of the Avenger/X-Men/What Have You but I wanted the players to have a brand-new organization to shape as they wished.  If the characters happened to all want to be the latest chapter of an iconic Marvel team, then their organization could be a front for that other organization.  Or it could just openly be the newest branch of that mighty tree.

3.  I had started out wanting to make a very cosmopolitan game (the international members of the X-Men in the Seventies saved the X-Men, which IMO saved Marvel).  The wonderful mix of international players (and their amazing cosmopolitan characters) has only increased that hope.

4. I wanted some kind of plot reason for PCs to mix with other teen super NPCs on a regular basis.  This allows me to have the Secret Betrayer, the Hopeless Crush (and/or Hopeless Crushee), the About to Fall Without Help From Friends, the Mysterious Stranger, the Bully, etc.

Here is what (I feel) is necessary and what is flexible.

1. It is NECESSARY that the player characters are divided into smaller, formal teams.  'Teams' in this sense meaning linked and distinct grouping of player characters defined by the rules.  Teams are awkward past a certain size and don't handle duplicated playbooks well.  Thus, it was necessary to divide characters into teams as Masks defines them.

Beyond that, there is no requirement for characters in separate teams to stay apart.  It may be that all the PCs live, work, study and fight in the same group.  And there is no story difference between the characters, the only difference is how some characters interact to each other within and without of teams.  Written skillfully, no reader might realize that this story also conformed to the 'rules' as well and that there were actual meta-plot subdivisions inside the giant group of players.

Or it could be that the different PC teams are separated by distance.  For example, one team is in one country and the other on another side of the world.  This could make characters interact differently.  A character would behave and think differently if their hopeless crush was constantly by their side rather than usually far away with only rare rendezvous and constant messaging to keep the bond between them.

If the teams are separated, then the game might only focus on them when they are together (large gaps between adventures now written as backstory) or the teams might have completely different adventures that don't seem connected (at first, anyway.... ;-)  ).

An option might be that the characters are not just separated by distance but also by purpose.  One team might be the Younger Avengers, another the Newer Mutants.  They fight together against cosmic and existential threats but what about other times?  If the Mutant Registration Act is passed, do the Newer Mutants conform or do they have to fight their old friends, the Younger Avengers.  Do the Younger Avengers try to enforce the law or do they themselves rebel against it?

If I didn't make it clear, the Stanley school is a stepping stone for some students.  They may enter the school on an Avengers scholarship and then graduate into the Avengers afterwards.  This could be the same for SHIELD or the X-Men or any other group or organization.  And for those that want the Illuminati to be more involved in the school.  They are!  You just don't know it yet (secrets will be revealed).

The same questions I would ask of the PCs also apply to any NPC teen supers.  So, to sum up for now...
1. How integrated are the PCs?  Is that they are one group except for the metaplot subdivisions forced by the Mask rules?  Or are the teams actually separated by distance and perhaps even loyalties.
2. What about other NPC teen supers?  Are they also students, either on the same campus or separated by distance and/or purpose.  Are the only students at Stanley the PCs (remember there were only five original X-Men)?

Let me know what you think, let me know what you think soon so we can keep the game momentum up...

P.S. Something that occurs to me now: there could be as many reasons why a student chooses the Stanley school as opposed to another option, as many reasons as there are students.

It could be that SHIELD cadet's area of specialization will be superhuman relations.  And an actual super-school will be a better internship than a normal SHIELD base.  Perhaps that young mutant is finally accepted by their family who lives near the Stanley school.  And so the young mutant is turning down a membership in the X-Men (for now) so as to restore those still-tender family bonds.

And, yes, trust me, the Illuminati is behind the selection of some students at the school.  And likely the student has no idea why they were really chosen for this odd 'scholarship'.  As for a different campus for each member of the Illuminati, I will say that each campus might be the main 'turf' for any given member.  But the Illuminati don't always work for the very same goals and blurred borders adds chances for complicated subplots and conflictions even between friends and allies.
Ricochet
player, 96 posts
Sasha Struck, age 16
The Bull
Sat 29 May 2021
at 09:35
  • msg #62

Re: Polls and Debates

Mainly focusing on how the PCs interact, and I'm still assuming we're all going to be interacting together in a single campus, have you ever seen the web series RWBY? They also split their students up into compartmentalized teams (RWBY and JNPR being the eight main characters), while still having a campus full of NPCs in their own teams, a bunch of interesting instructors, and it focuses almost entirely on school-related super shenanigans. It's what I have in mind as a template for how we'd be structured most easily.
Counterforce
player, 79 posts
Svetlana Kragova, 15
The Brain
Sat 29 May 2021
at 11:00
  • msg #63

Re: Polls and Debates

I would favour us being in the same place for school purposes, just going off on different field assignments... though crossovers could be fun, when dealing with larger threats. Even separate assignments can tie into each other as we take on different threats that come from the same source, whether we realise it or not.

I'd definitely favour having NPC super students in the same place.

Re: Illuminati involvement, one other question that comes to mind is - do our characters know about the Illuminati, as a (somewhat) cohesive group with a secretive long-term agenda (or several)? Or do we just know that there is this special school that we were all picked for by different sponsors that are in some ways connected to it.
Gateway
player, 42 posts
age: 14
Sat 29 May 2021
at 18:48
  • msg #64

Re: Polls and Debates

i think from ic posts gateway and resonance need to be in the same team as they seem to have clicked
Ghost-Spider
player, 36 posts
Gwen Stacy
Sat 29 May 2021
at 23:18
  • msg #65

Re: Polls and Debates

Gateway:
i think from ic posts gateway and resonance need to be in the same team as they seem to have clicked


Resonance mentioned that too.  Do either of you have a preference as to which 'Brain' to align with?  Octopus or Steel Ninja.

Still a few people we haven't heard any preference from.
Resonance
player, 31 posts
Xin1 Xie2 Zhen4: The Meta
Age: 13; Sheng4 Xin1
Sun 30 May 2021
at 02:58
  • msg #66

Re: Polls and Debates

That is actually a good question.

Real Life has been sufficiently busy that I am quite behind on reading the portions of the IC thread not directly involving me.

I will have to catch up at least with those two characters so I can give an informed answer...  :o
The Watcher
GM, 174 posts
Knows All, Sees All
Sun 30 May 2021
at 07:44
  • msg #67

Re: Polls and Debates

Copied from the Bullpen...

quote:
If y'all would prefer, you can wait to answer the 'When Our Team First Came Together..."\question(s) after team assignments have been fully determined (but we can easily work with those who have answered already). :-)

The last GM post of IC Thread #1 should happen Sunday night or not long after.  I believe it will be a cliffhanger.  And that will be the last of the freeform flashback for a bit.  The next IC thread shall be in the game present and using the rules as fast as we can get them enabled (actually, there may still be some freeform replies until we can get all aboard).

I will make team assignments around Monday night or so.  I will take preferences already expressed into account.  And afterwards, characters can still swap teams if both are willing.  The only real rule is to avoid duplicate playbooks.

As time is passing and things need to move along, I will say that the game will be centered (although far from limited to) on the Stanley School for a bit.  This doesn't mean that your characters don't necessarily not visit other campuses and places.  It just means you spend some time on the Stanley campus on any given week.  Beyond the one stricture that your characters spend some time at Stanley weekly, anything else probably goes.  Beneath the bright and sunny façade of the campus could be any number of mysteries, loyalties or secrets.  They just won't all be revealed just yet. ;-)

I will continue to copy from the Bullpen to Polls and Debates for a week or two more during this critical setup phase but that will fade soon enough as the 'cement' sets.

Stone Cold
player, 26 posts
Paul (Publo) Tuvalok
The Transformed Age 16
Sun 30 May 2021
at 13:01
  • msg #68

Re: Polls and Debates

I'd be happy to join Team 2 with Ghost-spider and Octopus.  Seems like we are hanging out together now and I can see us coming together.
Ghost-Spider
player, 37 posts
Gwen Stacy
Sun 30 May 2021
at 18:18
  • msg #69

Re: Polls and Debates

Update:

Team 1 Team 2Team 3Team ?
CounterforceOctopusSteel NinjaGateway
MaxGhost-Spider Resonance
RicochetStone Cold  
Leviathan   
Jubilee   
    

Unknown: Citizen V, She-hulk, Arc, Midnight, Skorpio

Note: Skorpio hasn't posted since the 11th and hasn't logged in in two weeks.
Citizen V, She-Hulk, and Arc haven't posted in 10 days.

There's a chance we don't have enough people for three teams of 5.

Resonance
player, 32 posts
Xin1 Xie2 Zhen4: The Meta
Age: 13; Sheng4 Xin1
Sun 30 May 2021
at 23:07
  • msg #70

Re: Polls and Debates

I still have plenty of catching up to do, but one thing leaps out at me immediately.

Resonance is... 13 years old.
Gateway is... 14 years old.

Octopus is... 15 years old.
Steel Ninja is... 17 years old.

I think that putting Resonance and Gateway with Octopus makes a bit more sense.

Gateway, Ghost-Spider, Octopus, Stone Cold: do you think we would make a decent mix?

The point about not necessarily being able to make three teams of five is a good one, though.

If the others aren't around, then we have two obvious options:
(1) three teams averaging less than five each, or
(2) two teams averaging more than five each.

With the latter, and with the desire to avoid playbook duplication, we might need to see how Steel Ninja feels about Outsider...?  :o
The Watcher
GM, 236 posts
Knows All, Sees All
Sat 19 Jun 2021
at 07:34
  • msg #71

Re: Polls and Debates

quote:
Tyrell: ...but this, all of this is academic. You were made as well as we could make you.
Batty: But not to last.
Tyrell: The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy. Look at you: you're the Prodigal Son; you're quite a prize!
Batty: I've done... questionable things.
Tyrell: Also extraordinary things; revel in your time.
Batty: Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.
Blade Runner, 1982


This is a quote from the movie Blade Runner that helps illuminate the following.  But I just welcome any chance to quote such a good movie.  The quoted conversation kinda goes downhill after that last quoted line.

Very soon, we will showing off our Moves in the game.  In Masks, Moves (with a capital 'M') are the core of the rules.  A Move is how a character reacts with the environment.  Everything that you would use dice with in other games is handled by a Move.

And here is where I would like your input.  Let me explain:

In Masks, there are no physical stats.  Essentially, you can't be hurt by the rules.  You can be emotionally affected in various ways.  But you can't die unless the GM and/or player wishes.   And, if you can't die then, sooner or later, you are going to grow until your character retires from the game.  And the governance of Moves is how the speed of your character' progression towards retirement happens.

See, in Masks, your characters mature until they can't mature any more (in game terms, at least).  There will come a point where they have maxed every stat and gained every advantage.  And then they leave.  There is a Playbook called the Doomed, where the character's arc is to have a tragic ending and leave the game.  But every other Playbook also progress towards leaving the game.  Their ending may just be a happier one than the Doomed (at least, I hope so).

This is not a complaint, growing up is a hallmark of every Young Adult story, not just teenage superheroes.  Coming of Age (and then Going Away) is rightly baked into Masks.  The question is, how fast do you want this to happen to your character?

With almost every Move, you either succeed OR you get the experience (Potential) or other resources to eventually succeed.  So you move forward with every Move.  The more Moves, the faster your character moves towards their final curtain.  Less Moves, less often and you don't grow up so fast.

How often do we do Moves?  For example, there is a Move called Assess The Situation.  It is the character taking a moment to observe the environment and learn from it.  In other games, this might be called a Perception or Search Roll.  Now some GM's in other games might have players roll Perception only once a 'scene'.  Others might have players roll Perception with the introduction of every new character, event or fact revealed.  Which approach is right, depends on the GM and the players.

That's just one example about how any scene might call for dozens of Moves or just one, depending on how the party and GM see it.  And players don't always themselves degree.  So I propose that a player may ask to make a Move any time they think it right.  I have to approve such a Move but I very likely will unless there is a compelling reason against it.  And I may also offer Moves if the situation calls for it.  The first time you journey to a new place, I might allow Assessing the Situation Moves as it makes sense to do so.

One more option, I might allow another player to setup a Move for another player.  For example, one player has a 'moment of angst' which is so teen and so Marvel.  This is to allow another player to make a Comfort and Support Move for their character to successfully help the first player's character.  This allows players to do things for each other and helps them bond.

If players want to use Moves sparingly ("Stay Gold, Ponyboy!"), I will usually let a character to achieve what a Move might be solving a problem and having a particularly good character moment.  This will probably happen after the Movers and the shakers have Moved.

If it seems like this would affect game balance, with some players Moving forward and growing in every way and other not so much, don't worry.  Your characters can't die, they can only be slowed down.  So if some students have to repeat a semester, they all still graduate given enough time. :-)

Let me know what you think...
Ricochet
player, 137 posts
Sasha Struck, age 16
The Bull
Sat 19 Jun 2021
at 19:28
  • msg #72

Re: Polls and Debates

I'm not sure there's anything to poll or debate for here, boss. We're playing Masks, so we should probably just play Masks. It's a Powered By the Apocalypse game, meaning it has some important rules baked into the engine that shouldn't be messed with or things break. (PbtA is surprisingly easy to break, just by ignoring the core engine and the Principles and Agenda for players and GM.)

One of the most important rules, coming from the idea of always starting from the fiction and going back to the fiction, is this:

To do it, do it.
If you do it, you do it.


This means that to activate a Move, you simply perform the Move's trigger. If you look around to figure out what's going on, you've hit the trigger for Assess the Situation, and like it or not, you're rolling those dice because you did it. Likewise, if you attack some generic goons with your super powered hero, you're probably not Directly Engaging a Threat because there's no real threat to engage, so you just describe your action.

The number of Moves performed directly correlates to the amount of involvement you have with the game that feeds back into the mechanics, which then feed back into the rules. I wouldn't worry so much about determining how many Moves there should be per scene. The players and their behavior will determine that.

Meanwhile, remember that any time a player makes a Move, there's inherent risk involved. On a Miss, not only do we mark a Potential, but you as GM get to go over your list of GM Moves and make one. The fun part is, a Miss doesn't necessarily mean we didn't accomplish what we wanted, it just means you decide whether we did or not and get to make a GM Move. Also notice how many of the GM Moves are totally unrelated to the action the player took.

If someone punches a supervillain through a wall (Directly Engage a Threat) and Misses, they mark potential and you get to say what happens. Maybe the villain dodged and threw them instead, making the player Take A Powerful Blow. Or maybe the player hit, sent the villain through the wall, and the fight continues from there, but the GM decided to use that moment to bring in a third faction to steal the macguffin for themselves while the hero and villain fight (use a new villain's Villain Move you made up about minions acting on their behalf).

Masks has everything we need to play already involved in it. The only thing we really need to decide is how we want to handle Session Moves when we don't have sessions.
Max
player, 88 posts
Age: 16
The Delinquent
Sat 19 Jun 2021
at 20:28
  • msg #73

Polls and Debates

Ricochet:
I'm not sure there's anything to poll or debate for here, boss. We're playing Masks, so we should probably just play Masks. It's a Powered By the Apocalypse game, meaning it has some important rules baked into the engine that shouldn't be messed with or things break. (PbtA is surprisingly easy to break, just by ignoring the core engine and the Principles and Agenda for players and GM.)


I am 100% in agreement with Ricochet on this; I signed up to play Masks, not some modified version thereof.
Counterforce
player, 104 posts
Svetlana Kragova, 16
The Brain
Sat 19 Jun 2021
at 20:53
  • msg #74

Polls and Debates

I'm not sure that I understand the question. That said, Ricochet is right - the rules already cover this ground to my satisfaction.

(Also, I have never played a game that lasted long enough to come anywhere near retiring a character. I wouldn't mind that experience!)
Ricochet
player, 140 posts
Sasha Struck, age 16
The Bull
Sat 19 Jun 2021
at 21:38
  • msg #75

Polls and Debates

Oh, and on the matter of growing up: that's one possible choice on the advanced Advances. You can put that off for as long as you like by simply not picking it. Another of the options is to Change Playbooks, which gives you a lot of longevity as well as exploring new aspects of that character.

And about the Doomed: death is only one possible resolution. They can totally survive their Doom if they prepare for it and make plenty of allies to help stand against it. S'why it gives an "if you survive" option. :P
The Watcher
GM, 253 posts
Knows All, Sees All
Wed 23 Jun 2021
at 02:10
  • msg #76

Polls and Debates

Ah, it seems I have misread the room again! :-)  My apologies.

In any case, it seems that there is a hue and cry for the usual standard Masks game and pacing so I will keep to the rules 'as written'.  I appreciate all that you have written.  I can tell that all you would likely be very talented GMs in your own right should you ever wish.
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