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17:46, 16th June 2024 (GMT+0)

Dont like the new ui.

Posted by Shinoskay
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 635 posts
Thu 8 Feb 2024
at 22:30
  • msg #136

Dont like the new ui

Glad to have helped!

Currently, no, there's no way to change the color of the Notice threads. It's been suggested, however.
Feast
member, 236 posts
Thu 8 Feb 2024
at 22:32
  • msg #137

Dont like the new ui

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 136):

Is the custom portraits only limited to 20? as a gm with dozens of players and npcs, this isnt enough xD
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 636 posts
Thu 8 Feb 2024
at 22:33
  • msg #138

Dont like the new ui

For right now, yes, GMs can only put in 20 custom portraits.

However - good news everybody! - portrait submissions ARE back and running again, which should help to lighten that load if you and your players are all submitting portraits (assuming you need new ones put in - there are a *LOT* of great portraits already in existence.)
silverelf
member, 318 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 00:01
  • msg #139

Dont like the new ui

Yeah my groups also enjoy being able to have how they see their character as a icon. I am happy with 20 because before it was none.

I would love to have the ability for everyone to see group's again, because my players want to look to see who's in their group when we do group missions or party splits to accomplish things on a bigger front.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 637 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 00:09
  • msg #140

Dont like the new ui

The ability for players to see Group was removed because - while some people would use that knowledge for good, as you suggest, silverelf - others were using the OOC knowledge of who had access to what to metagame.

If you would like your players to be able to see it, you could always post up a Notice thread in your game that listed off the Groups you're using and the members of each.
silverelf
member, 319 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 01:05
  • msg #141

Dont like the new ui

SunRuanEr:
The ability for players to see Group was removed because - while some people would use that knowledge for good, as you suggest, silverelf - others were using the OOC knowledge of who had access to what to metagame.

If you would like your players to be able to see it, you could always post up a Notice thread in your game that listed off the Groups you're using and the members of each.

Yeah that's what I have been doing or using the tag to note them so players can see. I am unsure how you can meta game a group but then I really only run Pathfinder/DnD stuff where it wouldn't matter.  Thanks for the heads up though. Still gonna miss that feature .
Dream Sequence
member, 97 posts
Certainly the loveliest,
most civilized of us all
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 01:12
  • msg #142

Dont like the new ui

I think a lot of the stuff that got removed completely, we'd have been better off giving GMs to option to keep or remove for their individual games, via their game settings.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 638 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 01:23
  • msg #143

Dont like the new ui

silverelf:
I am unsure how you can meta game a group but then I really only run Pathfinder/DnD stuff where it wouldn't matter.

Just one example, but if you happened to have a sub-group of PCs that infiltrated a greater group of PCs (like a group of Harpers, for instance, using your game setting of choice), and those PCs were in a Group of their own (in order to see their own Harper-related threads), savvy players have in the past looked down the cast list and said 'Hey, why are these three characters all in a Group together that I'm not in?' and then started looking for connections where they otherwise wouldn't have done so.

But, as you said, it's an easy workaround if you have a game where you -want- those things to be seen, to make them visible. :)
silverelf
member, 320 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 02:25
  • msg #144

Dont like the new ui

SunRuanEr:
silverelf:
I am unsure how you can meta game a group but then I really only run Pathfinder/DnD stuff where it wouldn't matter.

Just one example, but if you happened to have a sub-group of PCs that infiltrated a greater group of PCs (like a group of Harpers, for instance, using your game setting of choice), and those PCs were in a Group of their own (in order to see their own Harper-related threads), savvy players have in the past looked down the cast list and said 'Hey, why are these three characters all in a Group together that I'm not in?' and then started looking for connections where they otherwise wouldn't have done so.

But, as you said, it's an easy workaround if you have a game where you -want- those things to be seen, to make them visible. :)

Yeah, I have a small group of trusted people I rp with so they aren't trying to find cracks in the armor or anything. XD. IC knowledge is different from OOC knowledge and vice versa.  For mine they would know when suddenly some one that they didn't know well has been added to the game! Though that is totally fair. My group also have private threads so there are groups others aren't in since characters interact privately as well as publicly. For research, because thye are married, working on things etc.

Yep, I have a work around it just means I can't list them by class tag I will figure it out, its new and shiny and I am an old rp gal, got to learn new tricks.
nauthiz
subscriber, 806 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 02:37
  • msg #145

Dont like the new ui

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 142):

Agreed, but Jase was opposed to the idea of putting certain features of the old site which were removed for the new site under the purview of GMs.

I don't recall if he explicitly shot down each item/feature but I'd asked about that option for something or another and the response was a negative.
silverelf
member, 321 posts
Fri 9 Feb 2024
at 03:34
  • msg #146

Dont like the new ui

Dream Sequence:
I think a lot of the stuff that got removed completely, we'd have been better off giving GMs to option to keep or remove for their individual games, via their game settings.

I would love an on-off options for some of the old things.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 639 posts
Mon 12 Feb 2024
at 21:38
  • msg #147

Dont like the new ui

I can't think of anything that was removed except for Last Login (which jase already said would not become a GM toggle because it's an anonymity issue and GMs don't get to take it upon themselves to break players' anonymity), and Groups...

(I might be missing something. It's been a long time since I made the switch, so there's probably some things I have forgotten because they weren't ultimately important.)

...but in the case of Groups, since it's what we've been most-recently discussing, there's an aspect of the GM choosing to hide Groups from player view (if it were to become a toggle) that then still serves as a red flag to the players to be suspicious and look for things where they otherwise wouldn't. (The 'They wouldn't be hiding this if there wasn't something to hide!' mentality...) Assuming, of course, that the players know that it's a GM-toggle...but that's not hard to figure out as soon as someone asks.

Red-flagging your players to be suspicious for things/jealous of things is why folks were asking for Groups to be hidden from players in the first place. Seems like it would defeat the purpose to replace that red flag with a -different- red flag.

/shrug
nauthiz
subscriber, 807 posts
Mon 12 Feb 2024
at 23:28
  • msg #148

Dont like the new ui

There's plenty of things that some GMs do that others don't, which could be "red flags" to players looking to gain access to information that the GM doesn't want them to have for the sake of the story being told.

At some point there has to be the concession that either everyone in a game is willing to go along for the ride that's being provided with all the particulars chosen to be put in place, or they're not.

Giving the GM who wants to turn their game into a black box for the sake of the style of game they are running a perfect environment for doing so is all well and good, but not every game is that style, and I'd be curious as to what percentage actually are where the defaults on the old site hampered the experience.

The last login thing is also kind of silly as according to Jase it never actually worked, so anyone who was using it to glean potentially secret game information was apparently flying blind and just getting lucky.  A GM is already capable of choosing to break player anonymity in any number of ways if they choose to do so therefore an on/off toggle for a feature that was mainly helpful for guestimates about general absences doesn't seem like it would be the primary make or break tool for such things.

Though I believe the login tracking was also mentioned as being a tool for harassment.  I'm not sure how rampant that issue is on RPoL, but if the changes have significantly tamped down on that issue, then I suppose it is all for the better and those who found the features useful will just have to get by.
OBorg
member, 33 posts
Born under a bad sign,
in a crossfire hurricane
Tue 13 Feb 2024
at 00:44
  • msg #149

Dont like the new ui

nauthiz:
The last login thing is also kind of silly as according to Jase it never actually worked, so anyone who was using it to glean potentially secret game information was apparently flying blind and just getting lucky.  A GM is already capable of choosing to break player anonymity in any number of ways if they choose to do so therefore an on/off toggle for a feature that was mainly helpful for guestimates about general absences doesn't seem like it would be the primary make or break tool for such things.

Though I believe the login tracking was also mentioned as being a tool for harassment.  I'm not sure how rampant that issue is on RPoL, but if the changes have significantly tamped down on that issue, then I suppose it is all for the better and those who found the features useful will just have to get by.


As a player, I really miss the Last Login thing, even if it was inaccurate.
I'm not one to try and dominate the game, and if the characters are in a social situation and I've already posted, I frequently hold off posting further until the other players have had a chance to. I'd look a the Last Login data and if others had logged in but not posted, I could read that as their characters not wanting to take an action and feel okay about posting again.

And in one particular game, I used it to confirm my growing suspicion that I was the only player and all the other characters were actually run by the GM; which rather annoyed me as the GM in question had led me to believe otherwise.

NB Before any of my former GMs shout at me; this game died a while back and is no longer active so it's probably not you :)
tibiotarsus
member, 304 posts
Hopepunk with a shovel
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 09:31
  • msg #150

Dont like the new ui

Thought the lack of privacy in posting private messages was a glitch, turns out it's a "new improved" feature...really hate that, hate not being able to easily see when a last IC post was (and not at all from my ancient iPad, which doesn't tap-or-hover show times at all), and when not running the show, hate not being able to see fellow players' rough login times without what they're doing.

It affects how long I wait for someone else to get a word in, slowing down games since I can't tell 'busy' from 'gone', whether I put a quick OOC explanation for an edit in case a post had been seen in its original state by someone passing through who didn't have immediate time to post, and often whether other players were looking in on an inactive game and there was hope for a revival should the GM reappear without actively bothering said players/raising false hopes by posting and making the game light up.

I'd be amazed if any theoretical harasser needed login days to memorise someone's posting schedule, or how the toady effect of seeing who's posting PMs could possibly help, but maybe it's harassment of a type I haven't met in game types I don't frequent. The present solution really does have a negative impact on the types I do, however. Probably too much work to confine the present arrangement to Adult, freeforms or 8+ player games or wherever the issue is, but it'd be nice if 'conceal passing, reveal private posts' was a feature that only turned on for where it's apparently needed and those of us not given to harassment weren't having "I'm secretly conferring with ____!' out there to behold.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 643 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 11:59
  • msg #151

Dont like the new ui

With all due respect, there are a whole slew of reasons to be posting in PMs other than just 'I'm secretly plotting against everyone else'.

Many games run full IC scenes in PMs (with the limited number of groups, it's more efficient if the scene only contains a small number of players). GMs confer with players while building characters, and regularly answer questions. People just plain chat with each other (which is no different than in the OOC, just private).

All of those things confer 'activity' within the game. Activity is what's bring tracked by revealing 'Last Post'. Active players/GMs are posting - regardless of where they're posting. Those that aren't, aren't active.
donsr
member, 3025 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 12:18
  • msg #152

Dont like the new ui

  I don't understand this.  now? as a GM. i can see the 'time" of the last post. this helps me, because if  i'm ready to go to sleep, and i know  one of  my  'actives ' has    logged on . i may  wait for a post from them, or  make a post i might have made later.

 in games where i am not  GM.. i get the 'date' of last log  on.  with the 'light up" of threads you can figure  when/if the player is a round.

 PMs?  None of your business. as a GM  I have dice rolls sent to me, sometimes if there  are several reasons  i'll have  in the OOC thread  and/or  PMs.

 over the last score or so of years, I did have  players  PM me because of  a  weird player who thought its a good thing to   Harass them.. That  permits  me  to step on the weird player, or cut  that player outright, if it was bad  enough.

 If  the PMs  are game related... its  even less your business, as  the GM   feels you shouldn't  know

 Even at my age,I still play pick up  football ,every Sunday Morning, all year round.  the QB  doesn't tell the Defense where his guys  are  going to run their patterns..

 Paranoid  feelings can ruin a game, if you have such feelings? it may be better to  go to another game...Mystery , no matter what type of game you are in, is a big part of playing .

 Now? having said all that. if you are in a game, where you feel you are being Mistreated?  walk away. No one here is getting  paid to play or  run a game. So find a place where you are happy.
Skald
moderator, 1088 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 13:52
  • msg #153

Dont like the new ui

And as jase has said, the Last Login timestamp was being deliberately obfuscated - ie it wasn't actually accurate - so not something that could be relied upon anyway.
OBorg
member, 38 posts
Born under a bad sign,
in a crossfire hurricane
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 15:43
  • msg #154

Dont like the new ui

Skald:
And as jase has said, the Last Login timestamp was being deliberately obfuscated - ie it wasn't actually accurate - so not something that could be relied upon anyway.


Would it be possible to get Last Login enabled and accurate(ish)?
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 644 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 15:48
  • msg #155

Dont like the new ui

It was removed on purpose, because it could be used to link characters to the same user (however obfuscated it was, it wasn't obfuscated enough). Odds of it being re-enabled, especially with 100% accuracy, are slim.
donsr
member, 3026 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 19:50
  • msg #156

Dont like the new ui

 I ha d a  lady player, who joined one of my games, that wanted to make sure a certain layer  was in the  game, because she 'followed' by him across  several games. i didn't have him in any of my games.
drew0500
member, 268 posts
D&D Gamer
Eclipse Classless
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 21:41
  • msg #157

Dont like the new ui

It's hard to believe that stalking exists, but it happens. I once had a player that'd constantly watch the dice roller logs to see when another player was active and would start PMing them. They'd mistook being friendly as now being their one romantic interest.

As both GM and player, I have seen how certain players will change their attitudes once a player is revealed to be playing x character based on their likes or dislikes of the player and not the actual character. Social bias kicks into to full gear and you get complete 180 degree changes - friendly becomes hostile or vice versa, or the player will suddenly quit the game because of an experience in another game. Mind you, that usually means all GM investment of time and effort have been thrown out the window. I don't appreciate having my time wasted for things outside my control.

Not having methods to pinpoint who is controlling what is ideal. RPoL grants you one user persona, but an unlimited number of 'character' personas within the game. That last login was a method to identify roughly who controlled what, especially in longer running games where it could be days between posts and various players would check in.

As a GM, I absolutely want to know who is logging in since I already know who controls what. If someone doesn't log in for a month, you can pretty much assume they've wandered away (whatever the reason remains unknown).

Each game will have it's own social behavior rules. I *try* (and sometimes fail, because we're all human) to adhere to a posting schedule of twice a week. For PC conversations, that can be more or less, depends. As a general rule, I allow for players to reply to a game post within 3 days before moving the scene forward. Again, each game will be run differently by each GM and their own preferences.

Heck, one aspect that boils my blood is the fact I (as a GM) can't lock character descriptions. It's a public facing aspect that we get no notifications for updates (no last changed anywhere) and yet, the expectation is to be checked often... Don't get me wrong, I love the description, it has a ton of uses, but if I'm responsible for it, let me have the control and update notifications!
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 646 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 22:13
  • msg #158

Dont like the new ui

drew0500:
Heck, one aspect that boils my blood is the fact I (as a GM) can't lock character descriptions. It's a public facing aspect that we get no notifications for updates (no last changed anywhere) and yet, the expectation is to be checked often... Don't get me wrong, I love the description, it has a ton of uses, but if I'm responsible for it, let me have the control and update notifications!


I agree entirely! That GMs don't have a lock/unlock option for descriptions feels a little wonky.

That said, I'd settle for the game notifying me that <X Character> has had their description edited, so that I know to check it. That'd be kind of cool, actually...maybe have it highlight the character name in a color? /runs off to Development
donsr
member, 3027 posts
Mon 26 Feb 2024
at 22:18
  • msg #159

Dont like the new ui

  when i accept a new  player. They need to have a  SHORT... history in the CS,.. and a  description ...now... for the description that other people see. They are only permitted to   say 'what people see  and feel from you as  you meet them"..everythig esle  comes out  in IC posts.

 so?  if you are a  dark , gloomy  warrior  with a heart of gold?  They only see that Gloomy warriors... and through RP, they'll learn  if you are a  'hearet of gold'  guy
Skald
moderator, 1089 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Tue 27 Feb 2024
at 04:36

Dont like the new ui

Locking descriptions (exactly the same way we can lock character sheets) I could definitely get on board with ... if someone would like to put up a proposal for that over in RPoL Development.  :>


Edit: you already went there. ;>
This message was last edited by the user at 04:49, Tue 27 Feb.
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