DarthSelack
 member, 220 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 11:06
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
Have you ever wondered where all of the truly epic characters in Eberron are?  After the Last War, and in the past eons, where are they? In a world like Eberron, there should be quite a few mid to high level characters with all of the epic monsters and plots hanging about.  Well, I am going to take a crack at that.  In my concept, characters will level up more slowly, but their abilities will be diversified.  I am thinking of opening up characters abilities by providing two different level systems that are both tied together yet separate.  Leveling Points will be used to raise your character level and only your character level, while Experience Points will be used to purchase levels in Classes, Feats, Crafting of Magical Items, Prestige Classes, etc... Think of this similar to the Level system and Job Class system from Final Fantasy Tactics.

My thoughts is that BAB, Saves, HD, Skill Points etc... are linked to your Character Level, which you would earn in about half the usual rate. While you would earn double or more of the normal experience points to invest in classes, feats, prestige classes, etc... Prestige Classes would no longer grant caster/manifestor/etc... increases that would bring your abilities beyond your current Character Level, unless the prestige class says otherwise (IE Beastlord animal companion). Classes that provide alternative spells lists/casting abilities will be discussed, but probably be allowed. So no being a Level 3 Rogue who can sneak attack for +5d6 damage because you picked up two other classes that provide sneak attack damage. I feel that Prestige Classes should enhance the flavor of your character by providing an organization/religion/faith/etc.. that grants interesting abilities, not the end all of what makes your build broken. In addition, I am thinking of requiring gaining access to prestige classes much more difficult than meeting the perquisites, similar to how Unearthed Arcana has trials for entrance into a prestige class. Does this sound reasonable?

Any ideas? Any interest in playing in a game like this?
Hendell
 member, 237 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 11:29
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
It sounds like you want to recreate a lot of the old 2nd edition dual class functionality without the unhelpful restrictions.

Make everything that advances tied to both levels, so nothing can ever be stronger than your character level would let it, but you can buy as many levels of other classes as you want so you can do a bunch of different things.
DarthSelack
 member, 221 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 11:58
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
That is pretty much it. Obviously if you purchase too many classes, you weaken higher level abilities, but your character would be more diverse.

As an example, perhaps compare the abilities of these two concepts.

Name: Juggernaut
Race: Warforged
Alignment: True Neutral
Class 1: Barbarian 4 (PHB 2 Berserker Variant)
Class 2: Artificer 4
8 Bonus Feats Purchased
Extra Experience left over.

and

Name: Xorai
Race: Drow
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Class 1: Warblade 2 (Tiger Claw specialist)
Class 2: Scout 2
Class 3: UA Wizard 1 (War Wizard UA Variant)
Class 4: Drow Level Adjustment 2
Knight_Vassal
 member, 486 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 14:07
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
In reply to Hendell (msg # 2):

And add in skills and powers as a base feature.
DarthSelack
 member, 222 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 21:10
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
Could you elaborate on that? I was planning on having BAB, Saves, HD, Skill Points based upon Character level and not classes, but you might have an interesting concept.
Knight_Vassal
 member, 487 posts
Tue 7 Apr 2020
at 22:50
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
In reply to DarthSelack (msg # 5):

Skills and Powers is a book from 2nd Edition D&D. It allowed I.D.I.C. or infinite combination in infinite combination. You could make a thief with no thief abilities(Pick pocket & the like) and got fighter base attack bonuses. You still got a lot of the class, but nothing you didn't want. It was the ultimate customization book. Never have I seen anything like it until Anima Beyond Fantasy. It makes 3rd look like a cake walk and I mean that literally.
Hendell
 member, 238 posts
Wed 8 Apr 2020
at 09:39
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
While I don't think those two examples are running the same amount of XP they do raise the question of how to deal with level adjustment.  My thought would be to apply the level adjustment as an increased cost of character level but not to any of the class levels.

This will be a minor decrease in maximum power but not limit versatility.
DarthSelack
 member, 223 posts
Wed 8 Apr 2020
at 11:20
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
You are correct, I was just using it as an example. So you think that perhaps level adjustment should be paid for by Leveling points rather than Experience points? Very tempting. The only hesitation I have is that I intend to allow Savage Species racial class progressions, treating them like classes rather than a level adjustment for character level...
Knight_Vassal
 member, 488 posts
Wed 8 Apr 2020
at 15:30
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
In reply to DarthSelack (msg # 8):

 Really all comes down to what the players want to play. If no one want to play say an incubus there isn't a point in going into the rules for monster races. A half dragon or even a tiefling is so low a level modifier that it honestly doesn't matter much. Until you come up with the whole slow the level progression by half. If you reduce the progression by half it becomes an issue of how long it takes to progress you would have a 9th level mage barely able to cast fireball and a 9th level fighter barely able to take on a hobgoblin honestly that is where the bigger issue will come in when you gain levels so slowly in play by post to begin with. I get what you are trying to do, but there are easier ways to do that.
kark2
 member, 272 posts
Wed 8 Apr 2020
at 19:34
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
Just to be sure...
This would be like a gestalt game, where you choose a base class and then you purchase feats, prestige class and other abilities with earned XP (Level points would be tracked separatedly).

For example:

Level 1 Rogue /// 0 xp
Level 2 Rogue /// 100 xp spent in buying a feat
Level 3 Rogue /// 300 xp spent in buying a feat, being able to take a second class
Level 4 Rogue /// 600 xp spent in buying a feat, being able to take a second class and a magic item
Level 1 Cleric /// 1000 xp spent in buying a feat, being able to take a second class, a magic item and another feat
level 2 cleric /// 1400 xp`spent in buying a feat, being able to take a second class, a magic item, another feat and the abilities of a prestige class.
DarthSelack
 member, 224 posts
Wed 8 Apr 2020
at 23:09
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
Yes, so you are a Level 1 Character, and have been given say 1000 experience points to start out. You have one class automatically, but can spend say 500 experience points to add another class and have 500 experience points left over for later, or spend that 500 experience points on a third class, or to purchase two feats (at 250 experience points each). After this initial investment in the class, to reach level 2 would be the standard 1000 experience for level 2, 3000 experience for level 3, etc... You could never raise any class level above your character level, thereby preventing a level 1 character (level 5 wizard from existing) from casting a 1d6 fireball (as cool as that seems atm)

For prestige classes I was thinking that since it removes progressions, it feels more like attaining ranks in a guild/school/etc... Since a character isn't progressing Caster level, manifester level, etc.. in prestige classes in this system, a flat progression cost per level would work I think. So to attain level one in a prestige class, it would take 1000 experience points (and you have to meet the requirements and conditions and you can't advance a prestige level beyond what you would normally be able to do just like a class), level two would 2000 experience points, etc...

I was thinking that since this is Eberron, Artificers and item crafters should be able to absorb experience points from willing people to pay for the experience point cost to create items (and only items) for them, which would reduce the cost of crafting said item from its market price.
Knight_Vassal
 member, 489 posts
Thu 9 Apr 2020
at 12:01
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
In reply to DarthSelack (msg # 11):

  Here is my take at this point sounds like you have enough that are willing to give it a go to start running up at least a base campaign to test it. And for a concept test you want to start small. It's Eberron so I'm basically always in.
DarthSelack
 member, 225 posts
Thu 9 Apr 2020
at 21:57
IC: Eberron Campaign using a FFT like job and level system
I think that things have been hashed out pretty well, at least for starters.  I want to thank you all for your input. I have opened the game up is anyone is interested in applying.

link to another game

Good gaming to you all!