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Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

Posted by Sithraider
Sithraider
member, 166 posts
Mon 2 Sep 2019
at 05:27
  • msg #1

Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

BLUF: This game is currently in development, but may not take off.

I'm considering running a game based loosely around Grim Fairytales. The setting would be a "sword and sorcery" fantasy realm with a sort of Ravenloft feel.

Revised Premise:
The characters are Witches bound to the order of the Red Hood. The Red Hoods are a group of hunters that seek out and eliminate the nasty creatures of dark fairytales. In this case, the term Witch is in reference to a race of people whom were created first by the game's deity; the Three Faced Goddess. There are always three hunters to a coven and they are always female. The members of the Red Hood are known for their silver weapons and red hooded cloaks but most of all they are known for their single-minded pursuit of their prey.

The three personas of the Three Faced Goddess are; Diana the maiden huntress, Dilila the just matron and Dionnysis the wisened crone. The Three Faced Goddess is represented by the Waning, Full and Waxing moon.

Nyx, the dark one, is represented by the New Moon. Nyx is a sort of quasi underworld / mischief figure and the tainted fairytale creatures will stem from his workings.

The Red Hoods are followers of Diana, the goddess of the hunt. Some of the hunters are direct descendants of the goddess.

The Wolves, descendants of the first tainted ones, seek a balance between the followers of the Three Faced Goddess and the spawn of Nyx. Sometimes the paths of the Red Hoods and the Wolves are aligned and sometimes they are opposed.

In the fairytale of the game, Red was a proactive heroine that slew the Big Bad Wolf whom was out to eat her.  In reality, the wolf was the first of the Tainted Ones created by the seduction of Nyx by Delila and Red was the first daughter of Diana sent to cleanse her sister's mistake. The Wolves are cousins to the Witches.



Game Rating: Adult - there will be some experimentation with human sexuality as part of the storyline.

Interest: Would this be a viable game? Even if you wouldn't play in it, does it sound like a good premise? What holes do you see in the concept as a player?

Advice: Do you have any experience with DW and narrowly focusing the game in this fashion? If so, what would you have changed about your game? Were there any specific hiccups in game play because of it?

* I run PBtA games exclusively at the table now and PbP. I'm pretty familiar with the game as a whole, but I almost always start with a blank slate. I have not used any pregenerated fronts before. I'm sort of leaning towards doing so with this game.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:35, Sat 07 Sept 2019.
airellian
member, 476 posts
Mon 2 Sep 2019
at 05:38
  • msg #2

Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

Interested! :)
Hendell
member, 212 posts
Mon 2 Sep 2019
at 06:42
  • msg #3

Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

I have never had much interest in simplified games like PBtA but in a more robust system like D&D 5e that does an excellent job of versatility and ease of use this sort of themed game is quite common and if anything easier.
shapeshade
member, 116 posts
Wed 4 Sep 2019
at 21:06
  • msg #4

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales


I love PbtA games, but I have no interest in Adult/sexuality games.
tibiotarsus
member, 67 posts
Hopepunk with a shovel
Wed 4 Sep 2019
at 23:15
  • msg #5

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

I think the premise is probably too flawed to work.
Sithraider
member, 168 posts
Wed 4 Sep 2019
at 23:57
  • msg #6

Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales



@ airellian - Which aspects of the concept interest you?

@ Hendell - Thank you for the input. I've played a multitude of game systems and have found over the last few years that the overly complex nature of most systems don't work for me anymore. I used to love crunchy rules but find the narrative freedom of @World games to be much better for me as a GM. I've looked through Players Wanted and GM wanted for similar threads but didn't find anything that was similar on RPoL (I have seen things on other sites that are similar)  I'll look a bit deeper to see if there are any similar games here.

@ shape shade - I totally understand that. Adult rated games with that level of explicitness are definitely not everyones cup of tea. I always leave the level of detail up to the individual players; as is only right, I feel.

@ tibiotarus - Could you be more specific about what you think is flawed? I appreciate holes being punched in things so I can fix them.

Thank you for the responses so far!

Sith
tibiotarsus
member, 68 posts
Hopepunk with a shovel
Thu 5 Sep 2019
at 01:24
  • msg #7

Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

It's too late at night/morning for me to brain, but I believe that by the time you'd fixed the issues inherent in the proposal as laid out here, it would no longer be recognisable as the same thing.

I will spoiler cut my...2am response to let you look or not, because TBH if you want something light and shallow based on cool ways to kill things it's cool to kill in a setting that's more daydream-fantasy than other-world realism then it doesn't matter. If you did want something more complex, then, well, here's why I reckon the concept as-written can't get there.

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
Main issues:

- folktale about a female child used as basis for game about sex is unlikely to attract people who want to explore concept immersively in the fashion intended.

- Elite hypercompetent killer nonhumans passing potentially lethal moral judgement on peasants who're just trying to survive is likewise maybe not quite thought through in terms of implications.

- Eugenic implications of magic linked to bloodlines not great.

- Killer nonhumans masquerading as human women would fuel distrust of/associated cruelty to human women, making more settlements "sinful", making Hunters more judgemental, making people more paranoid and liable to witch-hunt etc. etc.

- Implied that sapient species (werewolves) are inherently kill-on-sight Bad and in need of genocide, compounding above unfortunate implications.



Fixes:

- Explore themes without tying these to gender, using one or more of many adult characters in folklore. Molly Whuppie, for instance.

- Make Hunters equal-opportunity cult for all comers swearing loyalty; peasants defending themselves. Shift personal moral judgements by inhuman beings (unlikely to be favourable or even comprehensable to humans) to a Code that highlights the difference between "legal" and "right" in play and makes players make decisions that could get them Hunted themselves.

- Red (not Little, since infantalising grown women and sexualising little girls is the same process) is a legend and inspiration rather than a dynastic founder.

- Auto-fixed by other fixes. Maybe have another group that does this as antagonists, to show secret/morality police with little (no?) oversight are a Very Bad Thing for the innocent and/or socially marginalised.

- Witch and wolf/monster races are two communities of the same people, neither beast nor human, the former group having chosen to throw in their lot with the villages, the latter with the wilderness. They conflict in the same ways as the things they are loyal to, and can come to agreements, generating conflict plots when either side oversteps or produces outlaws who reflect badly on that group by going on a villager/wolf buddy killing spree.

Sithraider
member, 170 posts
Sat 7 Sep 2019
at 21:17
  • msg #8

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales


tibiotarsus,

Thank you for the input! I hadn't looked at the premise from those perspectives and a few of the unintended implications need changed. Thanks for pointing those out. I've borrowed the "infiltrate and view" concept from the Deadlands game and it's Templars which do something fundamentally similar. Perhaps though you are right about the moral judgment piece.

Little Red Riding Hood was originally a cautionary tale for young women about the dangers of being flirtatious with strange men. The children's adaptation obviously is not. I was going for the idea that Red Riding Hood, whom won't be referred to as little in the game fiction, was an active and capable participant in her folk story and not a hapless victim. I will refine the premise to reflect that.

I definitely like the idea of the wolves and witches originating from the same bloodline.
steelsmiter
member, 2046 posts
BESM, Fate, Indies, PBTA
NO FREEFORM! NO d20!
Sat 7 Sep 2019
at 21:27
  • msg #9

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

I don't play much DW these days, but I think that the Red Hoods and the Jacks could be separate, but allied factions to get around the fact that witches has too strong a magical connotation, but the Jacks could be more physical prowess than magical?
Sithraider
member, 171 posts
Sat 7 Sep 2019
at 22:45
  • msg #10

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

steelsmiter, I agree there is a significant magical connotation to witch, and I may change the term yet. I've updated the premise to include the wolves as sometimes allies as well as fixed the unintended infantilization of Red.

I like the idea of Jacks. I think I'll use that as the name of the Wolve's order, or how the Red Hoods speak of them.

Thanks for your input steelsmiter.
Damian_Alpha
member, 39 posts
Just a Humble Storyteller
Tell me YOUR tale...
Sun 8 Sep 2019
at 01:30
  • msg #11

Re: Interest/Advice: Dungeon World, Gritty/Grim Fairytales

I'm getting strong Claymore vibes from the concept so far, and I like that.   I'd definitely be interested,  if this moves forward.


A couple concepts/inconsistencies I'd like to explore with the setting you've proposed (not expecting answers to these, but just as suggestions to deepen the setting):
  • Did Delila seduce Nyx, or was it the other way around?  Or, more disconcertingly, are they two sides of the same coin?
  • Does the lunar or solar eclipse play any role in the birth of Tainted, or in the legends if the goddesses?
  • What are the benefits of Hoods working in teams of three, compared to the problems of more/less than that number?
  • What are some reasons for the Jacks  and Hoods being separate organizations?  What kind of complications arise from them working too closely?  What are the situations they might oppose each other?
  • Would this setting use the standard DW Classes, or custom ones?   Would there be thematic moves distinguishing the PCs from other mortals, or is their very nature as (Characters who can grow stronger from adversity) the manifestation of their divine/tainted heritage?

This message was last edited by the user at 01:35, Sun 08 Sept 2019.
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