bigbadron
 moderator, 15917 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 25 Aug 2020
at 16:46
Re: RPoL Design Update
Yep, logging out is a smart move on a shared computer, especially a public one.

Also a good idea if you alternate between using different devices, a desktop computer and a phone, for example, otherwise your cookies can go bad.

Edit: And I'll do it even more often, now I know that Utsukushi doesn't understand it.  ;)

This message was last edited by the user at 16:48, Tue 25 Aug 2020.

Harley Quinn
 member, 58 posts
Wed 26 Aug 2020
at 02:44
Re: RPoL Design Update
bigbadron:
Also a good idea if you alternate between using different devices, a desktop computer and a phone, for example, otherwise your cookies can go bad.

I am logged into this site & other stes on my computer, iphone, & ipad. Never had a problem.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15918 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Wed 26 Aug 2020
at 03:24
Re: RPoL Design Update
A lot of people do report issues with new message indicators as a result of running RPoL across multiple devices simultaneously.
jase
 admin, 3771 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Wed 26 Aug 2020
at 13:23
Re: RPoL Design Update
In reply to The Stray (msg # 408):

I think I know what's going on.  Are the other players using the "old" site or the responsive site?


Harley Quinn:
I am logged into this site & other stes on my computer, iphone, & ipad. Never had a problem.

You might not notice it but individual thread read/unread indicators within a game can get out of sync if you don't refresh the site cookies when switching devices.  A quick relog (you don't actually have to go to the bother of a full logout) will fix it.
The Stray
 member, 123 posts
 When the Cat's a Stray
 the Mice will Pray
Wed 26 Aug 2020
at 22:14
Re: RPoL Design Update
jase:
In reply to The Stray (msg # 408):

I think I know what's going on.  Are the other players using the "old" site or the responsive site?


I have a mix of both, some who post from the old site but read the responsive site on their phones, some who are using the responsive site exclusively, and some who use the old site exclusively.

one of my players (who uses both) said he didn't see the secret rolls on the responsive site, but did see them on the old site.

In case it helps, I've been using the responsive site exclusively.

This message was last edited by the user at 22:18, Wed 26 Aug 2020.

jase
 admin, 3773 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Thu 27 Aug 2020
at 02:24
Re: RPoL Design Update
Thanks, think I got it.  It wasn't coping with the new roll format.
The Stray
 member, 124 posts
 When the Cat's a Stray
 the Mice will Pray
Thu 27 Aug 2020
at 05:38
Re: RPoL Design Update
Thanks! I'll let you know if it pops up again.
jase
 admin, 3778 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sun 30 Aug 2020
at 07:18
Re: RPoL Design Update
Just uploaded a whole stack of changes.  I wish I could report on what I've done but I've been fiddling a bit too much without actually taking much note of what I've been doing... or it was so long ago that I've forgotten.  I was so good for a while too.

Three things I know;
  • Updated a stack of screens to be responsive, or at least use <div> instead of <table>.  Mainly the GM and profile screens, as a lot of other screens were already done.
  • Removed a whole plethora of XHTML syntax.  Shouldn't affect a thing but it was abundant.
  • Changed the portrait servers to point to RPoL itself.  Our portrait hosts have done an amazing job for an incredible eighteen years but it's time the portraits came home.  The change is currently only on the responsive site for you guinea pigs to test.

ladysharlyne
 subscriber, 2793 posts
 You get out of a game the
 effort you put in it !!
Thu 3 Sep 2020
at 15:07
Re: RPoL Design Update
Okay who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks!  I am using the Responsive site but... I am sure others have said this already.  When I answer a highlighted thread the indicator light stays on or when I make a thread the same thing.  Just wondering if I am doing wrong.  Yes, I do clear them by marking as read for now. ;)

I do like the site and I am encouraging all my players to start using it so when the switch is made there are no hiccups (says she with all confidence in Jase and I know there will be hiccups!
nauthiz
 subscriber, 668 posts
Thu 3 Sep 2020
at 17:09
Re: RPoL Design Update
A bit upthread around message #412 there's some discussion regarding that issue with a few solutions.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 334 posts
Tue 29 Sep 2020
at 15:37
Re: RPoL Design Update
Discovered a glitch this morning with die roll IDs and private lines.

A player posted two die rolls in a private line to the GM, by pulling both directly from the dieroller log, roll ID numbers and all.

The first line (from the timestamp through to the end of the first roll's ID number) was properly hidden. The second line (from timestamp through to the brackets at the end of private line) was completely visible to everyone viewing it on the old site. Both lines are properly hidden to players viewing the post on responsive.

Edit: Private lines with rolls pulled from the dieroller log that do not include the roll ID number at the end are working just fine on both sites.

This message was last edited by the user at 15:40, Tue 29 Sept 2020.

nauthiz
 subscriber, 683 posts
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 02:19
Re: RPoL Design Update
In reply to jase (msg # 405):

Generally the last login and last post is the most useful thing to see at a glance in the cast list from amongst the things that are currently hidden.

The links to rMail, Private Message, and Description can stay hidden in my opinion as there's a myriad of other ways to contact someone in a number of other places in the game, and if someone has a description, clicking/tapping on the character name is generally sufficient.
evileeyore
 member, 415 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
 Joined August 2015
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 04:47
Re: RPoL Design Update
In reply to jase (msg # 405):

As a few others have said, I like seeing Last Log In and Last Post all at once.  Nothing else really matters to me.
Skald
 moderator, 916 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 05:52
Re: RPoL Design Update
Comparing old site vs responsive cast lists ...

As a GM, I'd like to see player name, groups, last login and last post on screen - all useful information for the GM managing the game - make sure I've got everyone in the right groups and when they were last on/posted.

Tag, and # Posts can move to the dropdown view - I doubt I'd ever need to check them.  Tag never changes in my games, and if I'm using post count to determine new XP award, I need to go into the game threads anyway as I need to work out how many posts since last time I did the XP awards.

This message was last edited by the user at 12:46, Sat 05 Dec 2020.

SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 348 posts
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 06:52
Re: RPoL Design Update
To throw in my two cents' with everyone else here -

From the GM side, I'd like to be able to readily see Character Name, Last Login, and Tag all on the screen at once. As a player, I'd definitely like to still see the Tag (we use it to define character rank in several military-based games, and it's handy to have it readily viewable) along with Character Name. Last Post and # of Posts aren't necessary to be viewable at a glance from either side, but don't really need to be hidden either, and would be equally fine on the drop-down or in the list.

What I'd *REALLY* like to see is a different Cast List setup for GMs versus players.

If 'GM Mode' cast list would automatically show Character Name, Last Login, and Tag that would be fantastic. If 'Player Mode' only showed Character Name, and Tag that would be equally fantastic. Groups really doesn't need to be viewable on the cast list at all, since it can be accessed from the GM's Group menu (and the new one is so easy to read, it's fantastic), and in my experience it causes more problems than it helps when players are able to tell which other PCs have access to what groups. Much like language groups, I don't always want every player to know who can read what.

By the same token, I like that 'Last Login' is currently not easy to view for players, as it's difficult to obfuscate when players control more than one PC if it's easy to notice who's always logging in at the same time each day. (Yes, I know that players don't see exact timestamps, but if the same two characters are tripping a 'Today' on their last login at roughly the same time for me every morning, it's pretty easy to put together that they probably belong to the same player.) Unfortunately, I also dislike that it's currently not easy for GMs to scan down the cast list and see who's checked in at a glance.

If I can only have one Cast List mode for GM and player alike, I'll err on the side of usefulness for the GM and request Character Name, Last Login, and Tag be viewable without having to access the drop down. If we can have a different display for GM and player, though, that would be absolutely fantastic.

This message was last edited by the user at 06:55, Sat 05 Dec 2020.

jase
 admin, 3785 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 09:25
Re: RPoL Design Update
Thanks for the prompt feedback.  I'm wondering if players should/need the last login information, certainly would resolve/remove all that obfuscating business.  Interesting idea with different information for GM and players.

Speaking of removing information for players, not sure they should see the groups either.
Skald
 moderator, 917 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 12:54
Re: RPoL Design Update
As a player ... no, I don't care what groups everyone is in and I don't need to know when someone was last on (if they're off enjoying their hols and the GM posts for them or there's no post at all for the duration), then I don't need to know the nitty gritty - to my mind that's strictly the GM's province.

SunRuanEr raises an interesting point - if Tag is being used for something other than access level (player, NPC etc), then that could be useful to the GM/other players ... but then so could something like Race in a D&D game (ah, Fred the Fighter is a Dwarf !  That explains everything ...) - I suppose the option is there to change the Tag to show character Race if it's that important to the players/GM, but to my mind it's one of those things that wouldn't change that often whereas login/last post would.

Nothing against Tag showing, of course, just worried that we might not have space to spare for everything.
evileeyore
 member, 418 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
 Joined August 2015
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 14:45
Re: RPoL Design Update
Skald:
As a player ... I don't need to know when someone was last on...

Inversely as a Player, if I'm waiting for other people to post (so I'm not completely spotlight hogging) and it's been X number days and I see everyone has logged on during that dry posting spell, I'll stop waiting and go ahead and spotlight hog, as it's clear everyone is waiting on me to push the game forward.

I'm in a number of groups with people who prefer to be reactionary rather than proactive, where I tend to prefer being proactive (varies with the character, but overall I prefer proactivity).
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 349 posts
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 15:04
Re: RPoL Design Update
Well... from the standpoint of space, just thinking hypothetically here and speculating that we *might* be able to have different GM and Player Cast List modes.

There are three columns currently, besides character name: Groups, Tag(s), and # of Posts
Under the mouseover dropdown, there are two rows:
 Last Game Login: <date/time>  Last Post: <date>
 Send: rMail | Private Msg | View: Description

If the columns besides character name were swapped to (for GMs): Last Login, Tag(s), and maybe Last Post (as I can see that being pertinent if you're wanting to quick-skim to see if one particular person has responded to something at a glance, having thought about this a bit more) then that's still just three columns so it doesn't seem like much more space would be utilized. In a hypothetical two-mode system, players would just get Tag(s) and Last Post, so that's one less column.

Then, you could put (for GMs) under the dropdown:
 Posts: <number>  Groups: <ABCDEF>
 Send: rMail | Private Msg | View: Description

Players could see under their dropdown:
 Posts: <number>
 Send: rMail | Private Msg | View: Description

(edited because I realized I'd been redundant pre-coffee <.< )

@jase: True, removing player access to Last Login does make it easier to deal with obfuscation! =)
There would be no need to code in that fix to have PMs trip the Last Login for GMPCs, as well as eliminating the current guessing game of 'Has my GMPC logged in today?' (since GMs can only see THEIR last login time on the cast list, which isn't what players see for GMPCs), and helping players by not making it as obvious when they're controlling more than one PC. Not to mention that it would cut down on the doom-and-gloom comments from players of 'Oh, I see we've lost so-and-so...' when they notice that someone else hasn't logged in for a week.

This message was last edited by the user at 15:14, Sat 05 Dec 2020.

nauthiz
 subscriber, 685 posts
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 16:10
Re: RPoL Design Update
From a player standpoint I find having the last login to be helpful as well.

Generally for the same reasons as evileeyore.

It's also useful when evaluating existing games you're thinking about trying to join because it's a better gauge for judging how active a game's player base is than "last post", and figuring out generally which characters are still around.
Locke1221
 subscriber, 50 posts
Sat 5 Dec 2020
at 16:23
Re: RPoL Design Update
As a GM I have to disagree with you @nauthiz. I find last post and post count to be a more effective tool, as I have had players constantly log in, and not post. At that point they are doing little more than clearing red.
jase
 admin, 3786 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sun 6 Dec 2020
at 02:43
Re: RPoL Design Update
Happy to shuffle it around however we like, the issue with having last logon and last post is they're pretty long so can consume a fair bit of width.

On the theory floated by SunRuanEr I've made GMs see name, groups, last post & last logon.  Players see name, tag, last post and last logon.  Hovering over reveals the missing information (tag or groups, number of posts).

I've reduced the year (where it's shown) to be just "'19" (etc) to reclaim a tiny bit of space.  I could reclaim more width by having the dates only for everyone, the hover expansion could show the hour and minute if it's still desirable (for the GMs!).

The beta site has the new layout.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 350 posts
Sun 6 Dec 2020
at 03:04
Re: RPoL Design Update
Jase, that's pretty awesome that you made two versions (yay!) but I have some questions. (I did hop over there onto the beta, but as none of the games I play in are there, I can't check much with regards to cast lists just yet, alas. Gonna work on fixing that!)

Are you currently displaying full timestamps for last login for players, as well as GMs? That was how I read your post, and that definitely seems like too much information to provide to players (since that's even *more* than they get currently and all, and pretty much destroys any chance of keeping multiple characters belonging to the same player obfuscated).

Would it be possible to make the Last Login for *players* display only in the mouseover dropdown? If the consensus is that people want players to have access to Last Login, it would at least help hide simultaneous logins if players could only see one person's login at a time instead of everything at a glance. (That is both the best, and worst, thing about the current responsive cast list - it's *fantastic* that players can't easily see all logins at a glance, but a pain that GMs can't, either.)

Edit: Still disagree with players having the ability to see Groups at all, though, even on dropdown.

This message was last edited by the user at 03:05, Sun 06 Dec 2020.

Skald
 moderator, 919 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sun 6 Dec 2020
at 05:18
Re: RPoL Design Update
As GM - Last Login/Post should show date and time - actually date first THEN time following ... first thing I look at is the date, so much easier if that's the first thing listed in the string ... then if it's today the time is relevant too: if someone logged in 5 mins ago I might hold off on an update to give them the chance to post first; if it was 12 hours ago I'd know not to wait on the off chance they're still pondering.

H'mmm ... with that in mind, how about we show date and time under both headings if the player logged in/posted in the last 24 hours ?   If > 24 hours then just need to show the date.


As a player - no, I quite agree with SunRuanEr - I don't want to see other characters groups at all.  I'd like to be able to get at the groups my own characters are in (won't need that often so drop down or on some other screen is fine) but not crucial.
nauthiz
 subscriber, 686 posts
Sun 6 Dec 2020
at 05:51
Re: RPoL Design Update
In the player view on my mobile device the "Last Logon"/"Last Post" text is wrapping into two lines for some dates (but not others).  Visually this looks a bit messy with some things wrapped and some not despite the strings being all the same character length.


In the GM view it's less of an issue because the time stamp in addition to the date (if there is one vs "today") make pretty much everything wrap.


Overall if there is text wrap it might be nice to have the cells on the same row as the wrapped text align with the top line of the wrapped text rather than the bottom.


Beyond that I think the reshuffling of information for better prioritization as presented is overall a positive step forward.