Advisor:



I think this point is exceptionally prevalent in pbp games.  Quite a few games come to halts waiting for someone else to post.  I find this tends to crop up in freeform and sandbox games more often, especially if they are GM-lite.  A lot of games often descend into scenes between a couple of people and if someone has a couple of days out things grind to a halt.

Roleplaying is a social contract but on here we don't know each other and are often at different sides of the planet.  Pbp suits people (like me) who would never be able to get a few hours a week to have a face to face / live game.  As a consequence 'good manners' waiting for others can stall games.

As a player, I try and give people a couple of days to post so I can be inclusive (no one wants to wake up and find there have been pages of posts you have been excluded from by two characters in your scene).  However, I think good player advice is to just 'do something' and not be afraid to move on if you're waiting.

I'd be interested in some GM point of views here....

From my perspective I think there are a couple of things I'd do;

1) Set posting expectations - remember that the game is for everyone, not just once a month or once every half hour posters.
2) Not be afraid to NPC a PC to move on or 'shadow' NPC them
3) (The most important) Set the pace and agenda.  If the players are floundering at making a decision or waiting for something to happen, give them something to react to and bounce off

Thoughts?

I am myself guilty of this. PbP is not for me when it comes to larger groups. It takes so long for anything to happen that I lose interest. Also I've had situations where a lack of confidence in something like rules knowledge or my understanding of a situation has held me back to wait on other people's posts; or I just might feel I haven't got anything meaningful to add. As you said this can easily lead to a situation where everyone's waiting on someone else to post and the game stalls.

I feel both the players and the GM share a part of this problem. As a player I believe we should make an effort to keep people informed and keep things active. Like if no one has posted anything in the IC thread for a couple of days people should speak up ooc and at least check what other people are doing, probably also should state why they haven't posted. It doesn't have to be long just a 'hey how's everyone doing?' or 'I haven't posted anything in the last couple of days because ...' it's hard to know what's going on when all you're looking at is a thread with a post from 3 days ago and no one knows what's going on.

The flip side to this is that the GM needs to be more willing to push things along. My natural instinct as a GM is let the players tell me when they're ready to move on, maybe with a couple of prodding questions on occasion. If your players aren't producing a lot of posts though I believe the GM needs to take it upon themself to say 'so it sounds like you were leaning towards doing x. well you head in that direction ...' sometimes it might lead to an upset player but there's not much that can be done about that without grinding everything to a halt.

Completely separate from all that, with regards to those with a high posting rate, to me it completely depends on the situation is. If the scene is playing out quickly, like 2 people standing around having a conversation, then I'm fine with it going on. I mean if two people happen to be on and bang out 10 posts each then I won't complain. If someone else was also supposed to be part of the conversation and they wake up to 20 posts it's a little unfortunate for the third person, but as long as there was no decision making or other vital plot related thing that happened then it's just one of the pitfalls of PbP. On the other hand if you're driving the story forward then you should absolutely wait a short amount of time for others chime in (at least a day imo unless everyone has had a chance to respond in less time). So for me it's all about context.

Definitely give an expected posting rate. That way people who would be too slow know to keep out, and people that would be faster know they’ll have to ease off a little.

Some people follow posting order, and see it as rude to break it.
I’m personally not a fan of it, especially in larger groups. I think it forces the “delay” between posts to add up, rather than happen at the same time.
Also, often in groups some people have something to say/add/contribute, and others just don’t really. Some players are leaders and decision makers, or they have important information to share, others are followers or waiting to be informed.

That said, I do agree people should give others some chance to post, so players A and B don’t leave C in the dust.
You also want to be careful you don’t make people feel too irrelevant. (Kind of a different issue.)

Agreed that it’s on both the GM and the players to keep things moving.

I think players should announce any delays on their end, even if minor or only possibility. (Unfortunately, I find people aren’t great about this.)
I also think players should ask what the situation is, either the GM or other players. That way people can see who is waiting on who, make sure two people aren’t waiting on each other, or find who is holding things up. It also tends to jolt people.

And then the GM should keep people in the know, and push people when needed. “Player A will be out this weekend, move on without them.” “Haven’t heard from Player B, continue without them.”
Sometimes they have to poke players to jolt them. (PM or even rMail to single people out.)
If a PC can’t just be set into follow mode or removed from the scene, GM might have to bot them personally.

Unfortunately, doing the above might come off as rude and upset people at times, because it is sort of pestering them. Worse, sometimes people have legitimate real life excuses.
I think the point stands though, because you don’t want to hold up everyone else, doing so isn’t gonna help that person’s problem. They may have to accept they don't have time for the game.

Yeah, I usually state in the rules how often people share post at the minimum, and have an "Absent" Thread, so people can notify everyone of when they're gonna absent; however, some people seem to just completely jump off the face of the earth for no reason whatsoever.

I like to use a long winded RTJ process to try to find players who will post at the pace I want.  I'll ask the player a set of clarifying questions once a day - my intended posting rate - and time the response.  A player who intends to play at the speed I want can usually keep up with this daily routine.  I usually ask 3 or 4 sets of questions.  I also use this to test for writing quality and player flexibility.  To keep the pace going, I post once a day no matter what, but exactly once a day.  I may make more than one post with different NPC's, but I make them all at once.

I had a couple questions of my own:
1)  Does anyone have a solid method for dealing with long term leaves of absence?  How about those players that just fall off the face of the Earth?
2)  Is there a way to cool the jets of those berserk players who post way more than the others?  I don't like losing players because they feel left in the dust.

@Liz: Yeah, no kidding. I think it’s good to realize just how often people disappear like that, so you don’t wait for them too long.
What surprises me is that it’s not as predictable as you might think. I’ve had players with very fleshed out characters that were really involved in the game just disappear without a word.
My mindset is not to count on anyone too much, because anyone can disappear or have to leave.

I dunno if people have had a different experience when using a system (as opposed to freeform), or when the game revolves around a small group.

@hoppa: If it’s going to be a long absence (multiple months), I’d probably just remove them and say they can return then. I think it’s unlikely they’ll actually return.
If it’s more like a month, I’d put them on hiatus. Once they’re supposed to return, I’d PM/rmail them. If no response, I’d remove them.

Disappearing acts… I’m coming from a “post once a week” setting.
Once I sense they’re inactive, I’ll message them (probably PM, or rMail if they haven’t been logging in). About a week after that I’ll message them again (rMail). About a week after that, I’ll remove them and send an rMail just to close the loop.

There’s of course variables. Players that are newer, less rooted, or have a history of dragging, get less leniency. And the opposite for the opposite.
But I do try to lean towards removing people. They can come back if they want, but I find they usually don’t.


Can’t say I’ve had the problem of people posting too much. :-P
Maybe try to group them with players that can keep up with them.
Maybe let them play as more characters, so they have more to occupy them. (Maybe minor characters.)
Could also suggest they join other games to occupy more of their time.
If they're making short/low quality posts, could challenge them to improve them.

Or, you could explain that the posting rate you’ve set is what it is, and other players (and you) shouldn’t have to speed up just to accommodate them. You might drop the hint that if they’re not okay with that, they can withdraw. (For both points, probably more politely than I just listed.)

I’d worry about someone with too much time on their hands though, sounds too good to be true. They might be having a stretch of downtime (vacation, etc.) and looking for something to fill their time, but then RL busyness will resume (and peak) and they’ll have bitten off more than they can chew.

Very sensible WW, that's a good approach.

Following from hoppa's comments about rtj's I think that may be an interesting area of discussion all based on how do you get enough of the players you want?

Well, what I did back when I still GM'd is let in more people than I actually wanted, because most lose interest within the first month. If I noticed someone hasn't posted anything in ten days without due notice, I PM them asking if they're still playing, a week without response, I rMail them with a warning stating that if they don't reply within three days, they'll be removed from the game. Whether or not the character gets killed off depends on the setting of the game.

If someone's disappeared/taking a leave of absence then I treat it as I do for an absentee during a normal game session. Just have the character fade into the background like he's there but he's not really doing anything right now. It requires a bit of suspension of disbelief from everyone but sometimes that's necessary. Alternately if the opportunity is there then you can say the character just hasn't been around. He stayed in the tavern for a few days getting drunk or he decided to chase a skirt before getting his face slapped and having to return to the group. This is much easier to do if the party is in a populated area.

If they're gone for extended periods then I agree with the just drop them mentality. My personal line is about 3 - 5 weeks depending on the person and the circumstances, this goes for non-pbp games too actually. I'm not so good on the checking in though. I'll send one or two messages and if I don't get a reply in short order (anything up to a week) then that's it. I'm not going to chase someone.

Since no one else has really touched this one, let me pop in here, from the viewpoint of a postzerker...

The best way is to simply PM them.  Say something along the lines of "Hey, not to dampen your enthusiasm (enthusiasm is GREAT!), but can you hold back every so often in social/combat/invetigative/etc scenes so other people can pop into the spotlight?"

Not that I've ever been PMed like this... but... if I were that's the type of message I'd respond to.


As a postzerker one of the first things I do if I notice I'm outposting everyone else is to pop into OOC and ask if I'm annoying anyone.  if I'm pushing anyone else out of the spotlight?

9 times out of 10 the other Players are happy that I'm keeping the game chugging along and would prefer I keep "leading by example".

But then I try not to completely spotlight hog by making characters with incredible gaps in their competence, so other PCs will always have areas to step in and shine when my PC is floundering about like a moron.