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Edge of the Empire Skills.

Posted by Nintaku
Nintaku
member, 370 posts
Sat 13 Sep 2014
at 07:35
  • msg #1

Edge of the Empire Skills

Hi! I've been looking over Star Wars: Edge of the Empire (And Age of Rebellion) a lot lately, but have found some elements of its design just baffle me. Unfortunately, I have no idea where to look to see if the designers themselves have answered my specific questions, so here's the big question I've got right now.

Why are there so many skills? A lot of these look like they could really easily be merged, and there doesn't seem to be real reason they aren't. Cool/Discipline are one good example. Perception/Vigilance, Brawl/Melee, Ranged (Light)/(Heavy), Charm/Negotiate?

There must be some element of design I'm missing, or maybe it's just the particular type of fun they're looking for. I notice they don't track ammunition, but they do track all these nearly identical skills. Does it serve a purpose? Would it break something to merge them?
AramilNailo
member, 32 posts
Thu 18 Sep 2014
at 21:44
  • msg #2

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

Could be sure...
But design wise they decided it would better represent the Star Wars feel.

For instance, Ranged Heavy and Light, Hand blasters are ubiquitous, but chain guns are not as common... At least amongst those who aren't heavy soldiers or bounty hunters.

Brawl and Melee... Jedi vs Bar room brawler.  I don't see a Jedi going to fisticuffs often.  But a Trandoshan is going to tear some face.

Charm vs Negotiate...  Many bounty hunters aren't charming, that doesn't mean they wont get a good deal.  And look at Watto, guy sure wasn't charming, but he still negotiated.

There also appears to be a split between aggressive and defensive in skills.

Perception and Vigilance...

Cool and Discipline...

I'm not sure exactly WHY they decided to split them, but they did.

One thing you might want to keep in mind though... If you halve the amount of skills, I recommend you double the COST of said skills, as advancement was based on needing to spread your points around.

You'll probably also need to be sure if you halve the number of skills, you might need to halve the number of skills associated with each path...

And so on with the rest of the game.

Most ammunition in the Star Wars universe is almost pointless to track, with many blasters holding hundreds of shots.  Thus they went with it as a critical fail result. (Most Video Games logic out that they are 'high charge' blasters that use more ammo per shot)
Nintaku
member, 371 posts
Thu 18 Sep 2014
at 22:46
  • msg #3

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

Most of that does make sense, though I'm coming from games like Fate and Cortex Plus. The difference in those between Charm and Negotiation would be completely a matter of flavor: is the character a gruff shopkeeper, a smooth scoundrel, or a sly ambassador?

Brawl and Melee tend to go hand in hand, since learning how to punch someone and how to wield a club effectively aren't all that different. Vibroblades and such are another class altogether, but EotE lumps those under Melee, along with the simpler weapons. And Jedi don't use either skill, relying on Lightsaber itself. This means a Jedi can't effectively pick up a vibroblade and fight with that, but could pick up a non-powered sword since those use the Lightsaber skill.

One problem I would have with smooshing skills would be precisely what I was just talking about. Other systems with shorter lists have much more to distinguish characters. Fate has Aspects, Cortex Plus has Distinctions. That way if you use a skill in a way that would suit one character but go against another, you're imposing penalties on yourself. This system doesn't have that, so I can see how separating them does provide that extra layer of niche protection.

I'm really iffy on making any real changes, since I'm sure they playtested the crap out of it, but it would be really nice to find some explanation from the game designers so it makes sense to GMs like me who have to go on Twelve Step programs to stop tinkering with games. :P Thanks for replying, I think I'm getting a better handle on things now.
AramilNailo
member, 33 posts
Fri 19 Sep 2014
at 03:29
  • msg #4

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

I wouldn't tinker until you are sure you're playing it right for about a month or two.  Then only hit the REALLY loose nails.

And make sure its not just your players complaining they aren't Darth Vader yet.

At the beginning you ARE level 1 and more like an extra than Han Solo or Boba Fett.
Nintaku
member, 372 posts
Fri 19 Sep 2014
at 05:04
  • msg #5

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

I dunno, at the levels I've seen these characters and reading the intention of the rules as they are, it really seems like you're starting at Han, Leia, and Obi-Wan levels. Well above Luke, to be sure. He's more an NPC MacGuffin. You don't need to have Rank 5 in a skill to be amazing at it. Rank 2 is enough. You can take on a lot of trouble and pull through, especially with Destiny points backing you up.

From the looks of it, I'd only want to start tinkering if it felt like things were really wonky. Since I've only just started, it's probably going to be a while before I can tell one way or another.
OptimalCarnieage
member, 12 posts
Wed 14 Jan 2015
at 15:33
  • msg #6

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

No, a starting character is not at Han level. Leia and Luke perhaps, and no where near Obi-Wan, that is simply laughable.

These skills are not as interchangeable as you may think. For one reason they aren't nearly as broad as other games. For example Charm is described as sincerely flattering someone in order to get something out of them. Their examples are: persuading an individual to make an exception to his usual practices through flattery flirting and grace, appealing to one's better nature even if they don't have it, and seduction for most species.

On the other side they describe Negotiation as this: The art of negotiation deals with determining exactly how much of what a subject wants must be surrendered in order to get a particular good or service in return. Buying, selling, agreements, and treaties. This is a very different beast than Charm. Same goes for deception, leadership, and coersion.

As for others you mentioned, ask anybody in the military if it takes the exact same training to use a pistol as it does a belt-fed turreted machine gun. It does not, hence why two different skills for blasters. This isn't rare, as the d20 system has separate feats for such weapons, and other great games such as Shadowrun separate types of weapons into separate skills.

You also stated a true fact, that 2 ranks is enough to be damn good at something, which defeats your arguement about needing to condense them. Think about it, they give you the ability to get a different class specialty within or outside your career, with no limit upon how many except for xp cost. This means that if a player truly wants to be able to do everything he can mix the right combos together to be able to put 1 or 2 into every skill. If you condense them, then you run the problem of everyone being able to excel at everything leaving very little to separate each character as their own individual.

As someone who has played a ton of this system I can reassure you it is very solid (except for the Force and Destiny book but that's because it is currently a Beta). If it wasn't my friends and I would still be using the old d6 Star Wars which was our choice before. Any character can attempt to do anything, as there are no "trained only" skills. Talents increase what you can do, but if someone wants to be personable they can even if they aren't very proficient in it. Alot of difficulties are moderate which isn't hard for someone with a 3 presence.
Undeadbob
member, 1826 posts
RPGA member #6004591
Just a little weird
Wed 14 Jan 2015
at 15:46
  • msg #7

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

Punching someone and swinging a sword are not the same thing. Those are two wholly different disciplines, having a variety of skills allows characters to be different in tactical situations. i would not recommend modify the system until you have fully mastered it, usually when you change one simple rule in an RPG it affects 10 different things that you were not aware of - which in turn changes the whole game, not realizing its broken until that one rule you altered comes up.
Nintaku
member, 373 posts
Thu 15 Jan 2015
at 00:07
  • msg #8

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

Much appreciated guys, but that was four months ago. Last time I posted, I already pointed out that I'd likely find the system played well, even if it didn't look quite right to me at first glance, so I understand that the skills don't need to be fiddled with. Also, I wouldn't have been adjusting skills for the sake of realism, which is a tertiary concern in my games, but rather for the sake of letting the players make the characters they want to be playing and telling the stories they wanted told. I don't really dig the tactical stuff or emulating reality, especially one with such alien laws of physics as the Star Wars universe (see the scene inside the asteroid worm in Empire Strikes Back for my point).

After using it a bit longer, I've found that the system is simply not what I want to be using from a GM perspective, and gone with a different system entirely. EotE just didn't mesh with me or the group I'm running for, much like D20 and Shadowrun didn't work for us. I do appreciate the advice, though, and as I still /play/ EotE, I can take it into account when making characters and such.
Holobunny
member, 35 posts
Thu 15 Jan 2015
at 22:15
  • [deleted]
  • msg #9

Re: Edge of the Empire Skills

This message was deleted by the user at 22:18, Thu 15 Jan 2015.
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