First off note that this is an Interest Check only at the moment. I work in retail - in a mall - and it's the holiday season. If that's not enough I am recovering slowly from a really nasty encounter with the norovirus. So this idea would not become a thing until after this whole holiday thing is done and gone.

Secondly this idea spawned from a random conversation with my real life group. If this turns into something really cool it is something I want to run for them. So this is kind of a test run but hopefully a really fun test run. As such though it will be a game that I will be looking for feedback and ideas from all of the players.

Third I will gladly answer any questions anyone has but please do not suggest using a different system or making a suggestion against the base assumptions of the game. This is the base idea. If you would be interested as long as I change these things then you are not interested.

And now on to the idea itself!

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Imagine your typical fantasy world - maybe a little lower in power than most - and for centuries it moves along unchanged. No real need for innovation. Medicine controlled by the powers of the church. Military might supplied by arcane forces on the battlefield. Industry supplied by dwarven nations. Economies driven by constant warring with "evil" races.

But then there comes a kingdom with a different vision. One who sees an end to the traditional ways of doing things. They embrace a new discipline in alchemy and over the next century bring most of the continent under their control. Think British Empire with zeppelins.

All of this is really just backstory. The empire spans a continent and the world is in the midst of an arcano-technological revolution. The world is shrinking as travel and communications improve in leaps and bounds. Lifespan and life quality improve as medicine becomes a thing of science rather than faith. So called "evil races" have been brought into the empire.

Not that everything is roses. Racism is a thing. Not everyone appreciates the empire's guiding hand. Greed runs rampant in the newborn industrial world. Monsters of legend walk the land driven from the shadows by urbanization and industry.

And then there are people like you. Exceptional people who cannot be matched by any save their own. Some foment rebellion or work for vengeance or crusade for immortality. Some just want to watch the world burn. The mere guards and soldiers of the world can't touch them.

But you can. That's why the Empire recruited you. You were Exceptional and they saw it. They trained you to use the most advanced science of the day. They put alchemy into your hands. Then they gave you the authority necessary to deal with others like you.

What do you do with it?

---

At it's basest level this will be a Pathfinder game using the gestalt rules from 3.5 because I don't think they were ever reprinted for Pathfinder. The only difference is that you don't get to choose your second class. Your second class is Alchemist.

Let me lay it out plainly.

- Gestalt rules with Alchemist as your second class.
- All good or Lawful Neutral. You are agents of the Empire.
- All Pathfinder archetypes (except Synthesist) are cool.
- Races have not been fully decided upon but it will not be just the basic few.
- 1st level
- Stats will be one 18 and then 25 point buy for the rest.
- All Classes (Core, Base, & Hybrid)

Changes from Pathfinder's base assumptions.

- Higher level characters are rare. The Emperor's Guard? 6th level. His court wizard? 5th. The vast majority of the world are not Exceptional. This affects things like...
- Magic items are rare. The few found have histories and impact. Most of your special stuff will be alchemical or technological in base. Alloyed metals to make better armor and weapons and the like.
- Adamantine and mithral are alloys made by alchemy. Expensive but craftable. And they aren't the only special materials.
- There are no earthly "evil races". Goblins can be good. Orcs can be contributing members of society. Races don't have alignments. People do.
- The game will be very urban centered.
- Monsters are special. It's not a chimera. It's the Chimera. It's not a red dragon. It's Vemithrax Pejorative.

I see this game as less D&D and more League of Extraordinary Gentlemen meets Bioshock with a dash of Batman. Floating cities held aloft by great Chemical Engines as they soar among the clouds hiding shadows of old hatreds. Great urban sprawls beneath the waters supported by alchemy and magic and waging war against itself. Vast skyscraper laden cities with the smoke of the great Factorums darkening the sky and poisoning those who must breath the fumes. Magic is rare and mysterious. Technology is reliable and taken for granted and available to any - for good or ill. And the world responds to your actions.

After all... you're Exceptional aren't you?
This message was last edited by the user at 03:18, Sat 20 Dec 2014.

Sounds interesting, but out of curiosity, why do you have the alignment restrictions? It doesn't really make sense. I don't see how serving the empire is even related to alignment, so I'm kinda curious how your view connects them.

That quite honestly, sounds rather brilliant.

nauthiz - Thank you.

DarkLightHitomi - Good question. Allow me to do my best to answer it. Part of the reason is IC. The PCs are effectively representatives of the highest law in the land. A protect and serve kind of thing - and they are new to it. A cop can go bad obviously but I think most people who sign up to risk their lives to protect their people or their nation start off fundamentally good. Power and human nature does the rest.

That's just how I feel.

The primary reason is an OOC one however. Parties work together better when they are good or bound to a higher order. Neutral I could potentially see working for the game. But everything else? Not so much. At least not without getting into territory that I don't want to. Lawful Evil would technically make sense but it would darken the game on the players end. Chaotic Neutral really doesn't lend itself to being a government agent. Even if the alignment was played properly. The Evils outside of Lawful are the bad guys.

TLDR It makes the game easier if everyone's on the same side. At least at the beginning.

Interesting, not just working for the gov, but good guys working for the gov.

Generally I play neutral, but lawful neutral works as am no stranger to disciplined characters, though I usually only do that with monks.

So thinking after Christmas, or after New year's?

Probably after New Year's. My job won't slow down till after that.

I'm very interested. Have a few ideas too. Would any of the interested parties here like to discuss potential characters in rMail (as discussing characters isn't kosher in this subforum I'm pretty sure)?

This sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing what the final product looks like after the new year.

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 23:08, Sat 20 Dec 2014.

I love the concept, it's nice to see a gestalt game. Having started in 2e it's how I've always thought of multiclassing but it's hard to find DMs who agree. I have a concept is love to submit but may not work. I'll have to give Alchemist anothe look too. I'll keep my eyes open for the launch.

I would definitely be in. Never tried Gestalt, I'll admit, but Alchemists are my favorite pathfinder base class, and racial archetypes(and non corebook races) are my favorite thing.

And who could say no to magipunk settings? If you get this started, I will definitely be RTJing.

Might be fun if I can squeeze in another game.

Lots of interest! Nice. Good to know.

Further thoughts on the game:

- Relaxing the alignment restriction to True Neutral and up. CN, LE, NE, & CE are still verboten.

- Relaxing the gestalt class to either Alchemist or Investigator. Keeps the alchemical focus to the game but gives a few more options. Both are quite suitable for the campaign in mind.

- Potentially using the Wounds/Vigor system detailed on the SRD. Keeps the cinematic feel of combat and allows the players to feel larger than life but gives a sense of vulnerability. Like seeing Batman break a limb. All fancy and dramatic.

- Highly considering giving the PC some cool magipunk vehicle. If you are going to be Exceptional you should do so in style. The exact nature of the vehicle has yet to be decided.

- I've been drawing a lot of inspiration from a number of disparate sources. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Bioshock, Batman, Sherlock, and Burn Notice with dashes of Eberron and a few other settings thrown in for seasoning. Lots of cool ideas concerning alchemical items, strange alloys, crazy drugs, and more.

- Now races I am definitely allowing human but that's all I've truly decided upon. I think I might just put a spin on traditional races with a few throwbacks to my favorite versions of races from various settings. Tinker gnomes feel like they could do well in the setting. I am fairly certain that goblins, kobolds, orcs, and hobgoblins will play a part as formerly considered "evil" race but with some old prejudices. Maybe throw in Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs, and Undines as new races born from alchemical pollution. I like Samsarans and Vishkanya for a nice exotic touch.

Though I like a few 3rd party races too. All on the SRD of course. Numistians (with a few slight tweaks) would make an interesting addition to a campaign. The Xax are cool if weird. Could make an interesting alchemically created race or the result of a magical calamity bringing them into the world.

Just a lot of thoughts. I'd like to here what you all think.

In reply to deadmanshand (msg # 13):

I like the sound of everything except the Wounds/Vigor system. I've played with it in the past and I'm not a fan.

What was the problem with the wounds/vigor if you don't mind my asking?

For the added complexity, I didn't see the benefit. You have 2 pools of 'hp' that heal differently and get damaged in different ways. Then you're in the dark on things that give you extra hp. For example, does the favored class bonus of +1hp give a bonus to wounds or vigor? meh... It's workable, but I'm happier with the simple system.

Fair enough.

Depending on how you want the technology of the setting represented, the Artificer may also be a fit with some specific restrictions/tweaks to better fit the theme/feel of the setting



I haven't used this system, but I think I get what it is trying to achieve after taking a look.  However I do think, just based on a reading, that other games have maybe achieved the same goal in a bit more fluid manner.  AEG's 7th Sea and the Flesh Wound/Dramatic Wound system comes to mind.  But again, I haven't used it so I would not be opposed to trying it out.



This would make sense, especially if it doubled as a base of operations.



Even if people don't opt to play them, I think having diversity like that lends a certain feeling to the setting.  Especially if some of the races are accidents/mutations.  Allows for a diversity of dramatic issues when it comes to deciding to play something other than a human based on how you'll be perceived by society at large.

-Instead of wounds vigor, a fort save based option might work, otherwise I'd prefer to go normal (I have a few fort save based systems if you want to look, including some that take criticals into account and are no more complicated or even less complicated than normal hp system.)

-It would be neat if we could try some racemaker races (I have all kinds of races I made that would be nice to play for once).

In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 19):

Races: What could be cool would using the Distant Heritages from the back of the Bastards of Golarion book. I'd work for humans with a little extra/mutation in them or go whole hog and mix a bunch heritages together.

Artificer/Alchemist? Wow, now I'm thinking Girl Genius a la Foglio.

@nauthiz - I looked over the Artificer and - besides Weird Science being incredibly broken - it doesn't gel with the themes of the setting. The setting isn't about magic and science coming together. It's about a world where science (albeit fantastic science) is the ascending power in the world while magic remains rare and mysterious.

On Wounds/Vigor I really like the concept of trying to give a real sense of damage to any D&D styled game. I just need to find an elegant way of doing so.

Of course it would double as a base of operations. All the coolest fantasy and sci-fi vehicles do.

Diversity and drama are definitely on my mind as I consider the races. I am starting to get some ideas together for them though.

@DarkLightHitomi - I would not mind looking over some systems.

On player made races I will not give a blanket yes but I would be willing to look them over.

@elecgraystone  - I am not familiar with that book or those options.

In reply to deadmanshand (msg # 22):

Basically you start with a human and trade out human abilities for those of another race using the race creation rules from ARG. For example, you could trade skilled (4) from human for a suli's elemental resistances (4) or darkvision (2) and skilled [diplomacy] (2). You can even go for weirder combos with multiple heritages like a human/suli/orc/half-dragon as long as you pay the ability costs. You also count as every creature for prerequisites so it allows for some odd combo's that require multiple races.

*Lots of excited freaking out*

And I was wondering whether or not to check this side of rpol. Glad I did. Though I love the theme and idea and have homebrew races I'd like to show and tell and would send an rtj immediately, and love wound vigor idea. I like shadowrun's stun/physical damage over typical straight hp. Also I have always enjoyed the alchemist concept. But I am heart broken over a few things:

My total lack of knowledge of the pathfinder system and a simple method of learning it

TextImputMax

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

that right there is lie, 90% of everything they've got for pathfinder, including the best (and almost but not quite but might as well be official) 3rd party rules for psionics, which imho vastly improves on d&d3.5s psi rules.

short of putting you into the matrix and uploading the information directly into your brain, i don't know a simpler method of learning it than reading it there.

That on rpol it will only be a testrun

And I'm not sure the degree of feedback you are looking for. I don't have a ton of experience that you might be looking for.

I'd still appreciate getting to here more on this idea and if you'll have me, I'll give it all I got.

@DementedJ
*lots of praises and thanks* I'll start reading

Ooh and Psions!

*points at bios*

@elecgraystone - Interesting. I'll consider it.

@ArgamenPhish - I'm glad you like the concept! Let me clear up some things for you. By test run I only meant that you all are getting the rough draft of the setting. It will definitely be a full campaign. The feedback refers to setting and story elements. Rules are easy. Unfortunately I will not be using the Psionic rules for my game due to a number of good reasons.

Oh yah, with that setting it wouldn't work. From what you said I guess I'd be able to contribute.

Also just to clarify being Exceptional the players may face conflicts that would provide small challenge, but no danger. While later on in a campaign the PC's would face other Exceptionals, which would be quite intense. Does that sound like what your ideas have been?

This sounds just too awesome to be true.  I have one thing to mention though, rather than denying psionics why don't you encourage the play testing of the Paizo official rules, available on their site?

ArgamenPhish - It won't be quite so cut and dry as that. Some missions might involve Exceptionals. Some might not. There is no sure way to determine who is or isn't Exceptional. Plus don't forget the occasional monster.

PCO.Spvnky - Mostly because I don't know them and I am already doing a lot of customizing and learning new mechanics for the game. Plus they don't really fit the themes developing in my writing so far.

With this many posts in the thread, it should be clear by now whether or not there is sufficient interest in this idea to warrant creating a game.  Please save all further discussion for that game, created by deadmanshand (should he decide to go ahead with it), and linked to in the post immediately following this one.

Thank you.

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was moot, at 05:27, Sun 28 Dec 2014.