Folks - a little request/bit of advice

If you are not open to/accepting of/able to work with those who are ESL - it may be worthwhile to note that you need strong, English-only speakers.

Well I personally speak two languages myself, (Spanish and English), and I could understand the trouble people who speak another language. English is hard sometimes and I lose words in translation a lot. Not sure what brought this up but am willing to discuss further.

In trying to make a positive community.  Harsh words and attacks on a person are unnecessary.  Very unnecessary.  That's all.

I find four languages - German is my first.  English... I just try.  I try very hard to get it right.  I spend a lot of time reading in other places to get it right.  If someone is having difficulty understanding your point/goal or stuff.  Don't attack them - try to figure out the fall apart.

I agree! English is really hard and even with my extensive experience with English I still have to check my posts to make sure it makes sense and I slave over a simple post just to get words right in order. Sometimes I leave out words even after checking. It sucks sometimes but I've gotten better just by sheer willpower and years. Probably couldn't tell English is my second language but it is and I understand the plight of ESL. We try hard people. :)

While I speak 2 languages (English and Portuguese) I don't have a problem with people that are ESL as long as they try. My mother came from Portugal 35 years ago and I live in a city where people are generally immigrants to America. I always require a writing sample in my RTJs so I can gauge if they can use English well. As long as a person can get their point across to both me and fellow players I'm fine with them playing. I know people that are born in English-speaking countries that don't have a good grasp on the written word. Indeed, some ESL people speak and write English better.

Hmm.

There's a difference though, between people who are trying, even if they make the occasional mistake, and people who don't seem to be.

I have no problems with people who have English as a second language joining my games. I don't even really mind if they've only fairly recently started learning English.

I do have one caveat though - I have to be able to understand what you're saying. I don't care if your spelling is terrible. I don't even really mind if your grammar isn't that good. (Neither of which apply to either of the posts in this thread; I'm making a point). But if I'm reading your posts at 10 at night, I don't want to have to be thinking "What exactly is he saying? What's his character doing? I'm lost...".

I get that English the absolute hardest language, ever, to learn when you're past your formative years. So I'm absolutely willing to work with people there. It's the same if you have dyslexia or the like though - if English is still a real problem for you, let me know, so that I can take that into account.

I think people should explain that they are coming from an ESL perspective.  It makes a huge difference in understanding from a GM's perspective.  Yes, you can eventually figure it out, but by then, everyone may already be frustrated.  If the GM isn't understanding from step 1, then you know to not bother.

I speak two languages myself (English and German) and am working on Mandarin Chinese and hope to move on to others eventually (and I would argue that English is NOT the hardest to learn beyond your formative years, by the way).

I know that my English is not always perfect, and honestly, whose is?  Mistakes are forgivable and I would never say that I wanted 'English only' speakers in a RP.  I do however think a certain level of communicative ability is essential.  I don't want to write with someone who I constantly have to struggle to understand.  This goes for ESL speakers and native English speakers.  I have met some native English speakers who seem to make absolutely no effort with their posts at all and their writing is just abysmal.  I don't think it's appropriate to 'attack' people over their poor writing, but if they are ESL and can't make themselves understood, maybe they should get better before they try RPing in that language.  And if they are native speakers and can't make themselves understood, then I think the same thing applies.  They shouldn't make everyone else constantly responsible for making up for their own poor language skills.  Making mistakes in the course of trying to do your best and generally being able to get your point across quite well is very different from barely being able to string a sentence together and then getting angry at others for pointing out that they can't understand you.

Isn't this really the point?

There are some people running games who are just immature jerks with no sense of tact or politeness. Your struggle to express yourself in English (which you do very well) is just an excuse for them to unleash their bad temper and worse manners. Others in the game probably come in for the same sort of abuse.

When I have the bad luck to hook up with one of these guys (they're always male, interestingly enough), I resign the game and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to work with them.

I speak only English besides a smattering of college Deutsch and the odd word in various other languages. I admire anyone who attains any degree of proficiency in other languages. My daughter speaks and reads Japanese, French, and Spanish (in addition to English) and I find her amazing.

So when you run into a jerk GM, just walk away. But don't imagine that they will change or that you won't encounter others like them.

I'm your typical american and only speak english, and i dont even do that very well.

@GamerHandle: this obviously rose from a bad response from some GM/game but from what I've seen here your english is good enough from my stand point.

From my experience, if someone is applying to play in a game in a secondary language, they are more careful about their grammar and spelling than a native-speaker.

The only players I have met whose English has been so bad I have refused to take them have English as a "first" language: the people who don't punctuate, don't use capitals, and expect you to take up the slack.
(This comment excludes dyslexia and other issues and only includes the people who blatantly don't care to try).

GamerHandle, if you are experiencing harassment you should report the offender. It's the responsibility if every member of this community to treat others with respect. You certainly deserve the same considerations and respect as a player that you give your GM and other players.

As far as ESL in games is concerned, I would hope that anyone that plays here would celebrate the uniqueness of having someone from another part if the world to play with. Yes, it can be difficult to communicate with people of other languages. Yes, there will be misunderstandings. And yes, it should still be fun for everyone.

The only thing I can't stand in written format is chat/text speak (outside of emotes). The written language is supposed to be different than spoken. It should be well formed and thought out. Nothing is worse, to me, than seeing "I c u ltr" as something written, in a narrative. Ugh.thats hard to read. Broken, or not-quite-right English is okay. It's tough to get things correct in English when there are so many words stolen from other languages.

Good luck, and have fun.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the user at 15:07, Sat 01 Nov 2014.

English is not my first language (I'm italian). I know I make errors. I usually warn people about the fact english is not my first language (both in RTJ and in Game Info presentation as GM)
Sometimes I receive compliments for my english, sometimes I make very stupid errors. It doesn't matter. I make and extra-effort to play and lot of people recognize it. In the same way I do not claim for special treatments.

I have to say there are lot of people english speaking as first language (I suppose kids) that use a lot of slang, bad spelled words and terrible punctuation.

It has to be considered that people that talks more than one language usually have an higher cultural level than who doesn't.

Of course I would perform much better roleplaying in italian but there's no so much activity in italian language.

However, no reason for anyone to be unpolite.

P.S. I've meet lot of people claiming to be able to talk italian on the web. They obviosly cut and paste from Google Translator and the result is a disaster. LOL. Talkin a second language is not so easy. Everyone should be encouraged in that effort.