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20:26, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Advice on game system for low-fantasy game.

Posted by johnblue
johnblue
member, 98 posts
Angels fly because they
take themselves lightly
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 17:38
  • msg #1

Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Hi,

I intend to run a low-fantasy game, and would like advice regarding which game system to use.

The only game system I am really familiar with is D&D 3.5, but the system I would like to use is something closer to RuneQuest or the so called Basic Role-Playing (which I remember fondly, but haven't used in 20 years or so).

An ideal system would be an adaptation of d20 to the following:
1. No classes, levels or alignment (but nonetheless versatile character creation).
2. "Low" magic (e.g. cure light wounds - which instantly transforms a dying man to full health - would be considered miraculous and would be a rare power).
3. Armor protects you from damage, but make you clumsy and more easily hit.

The plot itself would be a run-of-the-mill adventure - an empire torn by civil war, characters hired as caravan guards, etc. So the focus would be on interacting with the other PCs, the NPCs, and exploring the world and its history. So a system that also promotes these aspects of the game would be great, though I realize that this depends much more on the players (and me) than on the system.

Does anyone know, or has developed, something along these lines? Preferably, requiring an experienced player to read more than 2-3 pages of rules?

Thank you.
st_nougat
member, 405 posts
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 17:46
  • msg #2

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

have you looked at The Riddle of Steel?
DarkLightHitomi
member, 756 posts
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 18:09
  • msg #3

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

I am currently developing such a system, well it is generic so can handle low magic, high magic, or scifi equally well.

The d20 is replaced by three dice determined by stats, but otherwise is fairly similar and compatible. I have even been using d20 material to fill in for things I hadn't written yet.

I can tell you more if you'd like. I have an srd for it, though I'm still filling that in.
Waxahachie
member, 116 posts
The horn that wakes
the sleepers
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 18:14
  • msg #4

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

You should look into Green Ronin's Chronicle System, which is used in A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying (if unfamiliar with the setting, it is the setting for the well known Game of Thrones television show).

The system is built for a low magic, low fantasy world, and works like you have said here. No levels or classes, no miraculous healing magic, armor gives protection but also slows you down and penalizes your defense. You can find quick start rules here:

http://grfiles.game-host.org/gr_files/SiF_Fastplay.pdf

You can ignore the details about the setting itself.
csroy
member, 50 posts
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 18:38
  • msg #5

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Well there are a few options out there for you:

A. Ars Magica but without the Order of Hermes magic, any magic should be limited to the magical virtues.

B. REIN which is a One Roll Engine game, its a low magic fantasy game.

C. Omni system, magic is a limited in that system (and you can make it even more scarce).
atmo
member, 27 posts
Portugues em 78%
English skill in 67%
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 19:10
  • msg #6

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Mutants & Masterminds 2e.
Merevel
member, 820 posts
Gaming :-)
Very unlucky
Tue 14 Oct 2014
at 20:45
  • msg #7

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Roads and Ruins. It is still in development though. There are no classes, and feats and such are bought, magic can exist, but is limited. The cost to buy magic can be raised to make it even more scarce.

>.>

Actually, I just noticed the writer already posted recommending it lol.
otghand
member, 325 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 00:07
  • msg #8

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

You have pretty much described GURPS, with the exception that it 3d6 based rather than D20 based.

There are no classes, levels or alignments.  Characters have a point budget to spend at creation with which they purchase basic attributes, advantages, and skills.  Additional points can be had at creation by taking disadvantages which can also provide good role playing hooks.

GURPS does not require magic at all, but you can have it easily - the ability to use magic is an advantage, your skill with any given working is a function of the points you spend on the spell.  These have a normal price, but if the world is set to low mana / magic then they are much, much less effective and thus have to be more narrowly focused to be useful.

Armor works exactly as you ask - it protects you but also encumbers you, reducing your ability to dodge or perform any action reliant on dexterity or derived speed.

You can try it with GURPS Lite, available for free here:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/

Your players can actually get by with less (if you help them with character creation) using GURPS Ultra-lite:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/ultra-lite/

They actually have a published setting, Banestorm, that has the setup you are looking for, but that is not free.
Undeadbob
member, 1710 posts
RPGA member #6004591
Just a little weird
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 00:50
  • msg #9

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Warhammer Fantasy RPG, so then I can finally play this game. Its not low magic at all, but I really want to play WFRP since all the rpol games are in Hungarian.
DarkLightHitomi
member, 757 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 01:00
  • msg #10

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Gurps is nothing like d20.

You can't make any judgement about jow well you did from the roll beyond the abstract success and fail.

D20, mostly, can judge the quality of the result by the resulting number regardless of success or failure. A 5 is something even kids do, a 20 is equal to the work of professionals, and 40 is the realm of Einstein level of genius.

Gurps doesn't have this. You can't easily compare results either, for example, if a player was in a swordmaking contest, how does their work compare to the swords found in the market? D20 and RnR can tell you easily, just look at the roll from crafting it, but in gurps you pretty have do extra stuff or rely on GM determination. Further gurps is a roll under mechanic rather then roll over, and the values are generally lower which makes even a +-1 much more effective.

Not saying gurps is bad, just saying that it lacks a lot of factors found in d20.
42Nato
member, 29 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 01:33
  • msg #11

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

DarkLightHitomi:
Gurps is nothing like d20.

You can't make any judgement about jow well you did from the roll beyond the abstract success and fail.

In the GURPS I've played you can. Target - roll = difference, done.

GURPS is nice for 2 reasons: because it's moderately well-known, and it's modular - you can add on or ignore any sub-set of rules you want. Keep magic NPC - no problem. Make combat as simple or complex as you want? No problem.

It IS rather lethal - no abstract "hit points", you take damage to body parts, and limbs get broken. But that's true of several other games listed above - without magic, Ars Magica is pretty unforgiving to the PC's.

And there are several "mysterious" Advantages that are much less than outright magic that can be a nice perq for PC's, if you want to go that direction.
johnblue
member, 99 posts
Angels fly because they
take themselves lightly
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 09:19
  • msg #12

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Thank you, those all look like good options.

It'll probably take a while to check them all out... :)
csroy
member, 51 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 13:38
  • msg #13

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Not sure if it falls under your needs but you can use Barbarians of Lemuira as well although it has a very strong sword and sorcery feel to it.
DarkLightHitomi
member, 758 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 13:39
  • msg #14

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

In reply to 42Nato (msg # 11):

There is more than just whether it can say success and fail though. Gurps is abstracted that there is no relation between the rolls and the what the character does.

That is one of the things d20 does better, not perfectly but better.

If you don't want any connection, if you want an absurd level of abstraction, then gurps is fine. Just saying it is a major drawback of the system. You can make systems just as simple (and easier to use) that don't have that drawback, and even better, If all you want is something for success or failure then you can just ignore anything beyond whether the rolls succeed or not, making such a system more versatile in that respect.

This is one of the major things I tackled with my system, and I managed it while keeping the modularity and versatility on par with, if not better than gurps.

So yeah, gurps can do it's niche style of very abstracted, but it has limits that must considered when choosing a system.
JaJH
member, 55 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 14:37
  • msg #15

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Maybe I'm derailing this, but I don't see how GURPS is that abstract or pass/fail.

Using the swordmaking contest example above. Say I have an armory skill of 14, and so does my opponent. We both roll, I roll a 12, he rolls a 14. Both succeed. My margin of success is 2, his is 0. Yes we both passed, but my margin of success was better, I make the better sword.

Or, turn it around, I roll a 16, my opponent rolls a 15. We both fail, but he comes closer to success. His sword isn't so lumpy and misshapen, he wins. How is this really any different than a d20 system that is also pass/fail and relies on margins for degrees of success?
Merevel
member, 822 posts
Gaming :-)
Very unlucky
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 15:19
  • msg #16

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

DarkLightHitomi is probably referring to written material. Is it written in the rules about degrees of success or failure? Those things should be left up to the GM anyway.
JaJH
member, 57 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 15:45
  • msg #17

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

Merevel:
DarkLightHitomi is probably referring to written material. Is it written in the rules about degrees of success or failure? Those things should be left up to the GM anyway.


Yes, in the Campaigns Book Page 347

Agree that it's GM discretion, though. I'll use margins of success/failure when it matters in contests, races, and that sort of thing but otherwise it's just pass/fail. But in my experience, that's how D20 games work too.
Merevel
member, 823 posts
Gaming :-)
Very unlucky
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 16:03
  • msg #18

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

I have limited experience with Dungeons and dragons(some really old books I grew up with, a leafing of 2.0 and I have a 3.0 players manual) I do not remember it in any of them. I have never read Gurps, and I have only looked over d20 character creation.

So yeah, I had no idea lol.
DarkLightHitomi
member, 759 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 18:31
  • msg #19

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

In reply to JaJH (msg # 15):

It is different in that I can compare a sword to any sword made anywhere, and without caps, so if a demigod made a sword surpassing that of any human smith, you can easily see just how much better made it was (was it slightly better then hunan smiths, or was it much better, or even far beyond that).

D20 has a set scale so you can compare across the board and across scales (as in natural, supernatural, or divine) of ability.

Gurps isn't like that, a 14 can be a success for one person and failure for another, therefore, saying the sword was made with a 14 means nothing anywhere beyond the initial context.

D20 however, after the contest is over the player might decide to sell the sword and when she takes it to the market, she can compare just how well the sword stacks up against others for sale, it is good enough that a baron might be interested, or only suitable for lesser nobles and freemen (or even only commoners!).

See how the information can be useful beyond the initial contest and can compare to any other?

This may not be explicitly stated in the rules, but it is a consistent aspect of the rules. A player can roll really and be told that it was even better than king's blacksmith, and the GM doesn't need to make up an answer based on nothing any time the player has a question regarding the swords quality, as everyone can just look at the result and glean tons of information.

It makes the entire world work on one scale, thus the scale is objective rather then subjective, thus the context of making the sword doesn't matter, a 14 on the check means the exact same thing regardless of who, when, or why.

This also means that like real craftsman, a player can look at their result and without waiting for anyone else's results, will know just how well they did in the grand scheme of things, they know whether their work was professional grade or not regardless of whether they won the contest.
JaJH
member, 58 posts
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 18:42
  • msg #20

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

If I had to, I probably could tease out that sort of information using GURPS but it'd be awkward. I see what you're saying, that it's a lot more smooth/built in with a D20 system. Thanks for the clarification
bigbadron
moderator, 14700 posts
He's big, he's bad,
but mostly he's Ron.
Wed 15 Oct 2014
at 18:44

Re: Advice on game system for low-fantasy game

As the OP has said that he has sufficient suggestions to work with, I'm closing this now.

Thank you.
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