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01:14, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Character Sheet in use warning.

Posted by Piestar
Piestar
member, 491 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 22:26
  • msg #7

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Shannara:
You could just lock the sheet for GM editing only before you start editing it.


You bring up an interesting idea though. What if opening the character sheet to edit simply locked it to everyone until you were finished?
Shannara
moderator, 3540 posts
Whatever you do,
DON'T PANIC!
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 22:27

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

No -- but then, you could always post a warning to let players know you're starting to edit in 'X'.  :-)

Or lock the sheets 4 hours before you start to edit them.
Maidenfine
member, 98 posts
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 22:28
  • msg #9

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Similar to a wiki, you would probably want to make it a temporary lock. I wouldn't want someone to open a sheet, get started, then walk off to make dinner and then I, as GM, can't do anything with their character sheet for hours.
Piestar
member, 492 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 23:32
  • msg #10

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Shannara:
No -- but then, you could always post a warning to let players know you're starting to edit in 'X'.  :-)

Or lock the sheets 4 hours before you start to edit them.


That seems like a lot of effort, and as for me I have no way to contact any of my players. I envy the people who are playing on RPoL with people they know.

Is there really an argument here against the idea, rather then attempted  workarounds?

That said, Maidenfines idea seems sound, but the programing for it would be too much effort I think. Mind you I don't know code well, but if it waited for twenty minutes without any data entry, then auto-saves and closes that would be a joy.

All I am asking for though is a way to make sure it can only be open on one computer screen at a time. Seems pretty basic.
Dara
member, 345 posts
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 23:38
  • msg #11

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

A simple PM to them would work.  Then you could send another one to let them know when you are done.
Piestar
member, 493 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 23:46
  • msg #12

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Sending them a PM while they are in edit though would no doubt not be found and read until it was too late.
jase
admin, 3435 posts
Cogito, ergo procuro.
Carpe stultus!
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 04:59

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

The problem with locking sheets while they're being edited is that the web is, by nature, connectionless; so it doesn't know if someone's lost connectivity (or, as previously mentioned, forgotten about it).

It's also entirely possible that someone will edit a sheet to view a piece of code and then jump somewhere else without clicking "save" (or a new "unlock without saving" button).  GMs wanting to copy and paste into another sheet would be an example of this, as to would players wanting to grab some formatting for another character sheet.  Once viewed the member could just click "game menu", or even close the browser tab.

All in all there are stacks of ways for the character sheet to be left as being edited when it's not.  Basic locking would be pretty simple to implement (automatically unlocking after 20 minutes is anything but basic), but I think members would find it a royal pain and far more trouble than it's worth.
Piestar
member, 494 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 05:49
  • msg #14

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

But aren't you saying they would find it a pain because they couldn't access a sheet and mess things up?
jase
admin, 3436 posts
Cogito, ergo procuro.
Carpe stultus!
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 08:36

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

In reply to Piestar (msg # 14):

No, I'm saying that basic locking would be annoying because most of the time the sheet would be incorrectly marked as being edited.

The instances of people trying to edit a sheet at the same time is very low.  The issue would come from a sheet being marked as in-use when it's not.  I'm guessing that most of the "in use" alerts would be false.
C-h Freese
member, 172 posts
Survive - Love - Live
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 09:08
  • msg #16

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Actually you could post a notice in bold red at the top of the character sheet that you are doing an extended edit.  Put the date then save it.
Then go back and do the edit, if the notice has the wrong day then it could be removed at the new day added or removed completely if you weren't actually planing to edit it.
Skald
moderator, 623 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 12:13
  • msg #17

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Have never had it happen to me in 14.5 years ... but yes, I'm now terrified that it might !  :>

But I agree with jase, I don't think a lock is workable - what I think we need is something similar to the warning you get when you reply to a post and it's been updated - means that the person saving the character sheet second is prompted so they know to abort their changes and redo on the newest version.
Shannara
moderator, 3541 posts
Whatever you do,
DON'T PANIC!
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 13:20

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Bets on how many people would go ahead and save their changes, even after getting that warning?  :-)

What warning?
Alexei Yaruk-Mundhenk
member, 1661 posts
Ad Majorem
Dea Gloriam
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 20:00
  • msg #19

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Well, speaking strictly for myself: I would not.
Piestar
member, 495 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:45
  • msg #20

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

C-h Freese:
Actually you could post a notice in bold red at the top of the character sheet that you are doing an extended edit.


Wow, thanks, the first really useful work around! Excellent, I will use that for now, that is certain.
Grimmond
member, 319 posts
Antler-care by LIV THATCH
"RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:45
  • msg #21

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

As a GM I have had this occur at least twice a year in the three years that I have been here. It is a matter of chance and luck. Like seeing a UFO ... for some odd reason those of the beer drinking southern life style seem to see more of them than us northerners. (I'm just sayin ... )
Piestar
member, 496 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:47
  • msg #22

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Skald:
Have never had it happen to me in 14.5 years ... but yes, I'm now terrified that it might !  :>

But I agree with jase, I don't think a lock is workable - what I think we need is something similar to the warning you get when you reply to a post and it's been updated - means that the person saving the character sheet second is prompted so they know to abort their changes and redo on the newest version.


Well a lock wasn't my original thought, nor is it required to accomplish my goal, which is simply a warning that it is currently being edits.

As JASE pointed out though, the page doesn't always know when it's being edited, so there might not be any real way to do what I am hoping for.
Grimmond
member, 320 posts
Antler-care by LIV THATCH
"RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:50
  • msg #23

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

About all you could do is COPY the sheet to a word doc and save that so you have a back up if it gets borked. Then lock the sheet so it can't be opened. Then edit it and save it. Then wait and see if the player complains that he CAN NOT save it.

As a player I always make my edits off-line so I have a copy. I also make my LONG posts off line then paste it as the site does get wonky occasionally.
Piestar
member, 497 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:51
  • msg #24

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Grimmond:
As a GM I have had this occur at least twice a year in the three years that I have been here. It is a matter of chance and luck. Like seeing a UFO ... for some odd reason those of the beer drinking southern life style seem to see more of them than us northerners. (I'm just sayin ... )


Too funny. Glad to have a voice chime in that knows and understands what I am talking  about. I think it's about the third time it has happened to me, once as the DM and twice as the player.

If I understand what Jase said earlier, it is pretty much impossible because the page doesn't seem to really know if it is still being edited or not.

Not much I can do as a player, but I am going to use the idea of C-h Freese in the game I just started, warning all players to look for the red note at the top, and to remove when the edit is done.

Not seeing a reason for the date really, as long as the red note is only at the top of the edit while the edit is on-going.
Piestar
member, 498 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sat 18 Apr 2015
at 21:53
  • msg #25

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Grimmond:
About all you could do is COPY the sheet to a word doc and save that so you have a back up if it gets borked. Then lock the sheet so it can't be opened. Then edit it and save it. Then wait and see if the player complains that he CAN NOT save it.

As a player I always make my edits off-line so I have a copy. I also make my LONG posts off line then paste it as the site does get wonky occasionally.


I see times when that would be useful, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Unless I took my magnifying glass to the character sheet before adding my done-off-line changes, I would be overriding any changes made while I was doing that, and to be honest I don't see me and other players doing that every time they make a change.
Skald
moderator, 624 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Sun 19 Apr 2015
at 04:38
  • msg #26

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Piestar:
If I understand what Jase said earlier, it is pretty much impossible because the page doesn't seem to really know if it is still being edited or not.

Ah, but that's the beauty of checking for changes - it doesn't need to know if it's currently being edited, it just needs to know if it's changed since you started editing.

I'm envisaging it'd work the same way it works for in game posts - if there are two players concurrently writing replies to a thread, then the first player to hit the update button posts no problems (the fact that there's another edit happening matters not), but the second player gets the warning that the thread has now updated - nothing to do with the fact of editing, just that there's now a new post on there - ie not reporting that an edit is in progress, but that an edit has already happened.

Whether this can be done for char sheets, only jase knows.  There may or may not be the necessary time stamp variables available.
Piestar
member, 499 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sun 19 Apr 2015
at 04:41
  • msg #27

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

The key is to find out it's being edited before you start though, or you have to choose between losing your work or theirs.
Skald
moderator, 625 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Sun 19 Apr 2015
at 05:23
  • msg #28

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Oh, agreed - the warning would not be a completely perfect solution ... but (if the variables are there to make it work) I think it's the best we can do and at least it gives you the chance to review and make any changes before you overwrite. :>
jase
admin, 3437 posts
Cogito, ergo procuro.
Carpe stultus!
Sun 19 Apr 2015
at 07:02

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Piestar:
Well a lock wasn't my original thought, nor is it required to accomplish my goal, which is simply a warning that it is currently being edits.

Lock or "being edited" warning are the same thing really, it's just whether you forcibly stop the user from editing the file or simply warn them.  The difference is in how you react if a file is being edited; the complexities, pitfalls and limitations are exactly the same.


I think a last modified check would stop any potential issues, similar to how the simultaneous post detection work, and it's pretty simple to implement (which means it took about 90 minutes to code and test).

Next version will have it.  If you update a sheet or description and it's been modified/created since you started editing then it'll push you back to the edit screen with an alert at the top.  For sheets it'll go something like thus;

Warning!
This character sheet has been updated since you started also editing it.  It is strongly advised that you review the other changes and contact whoever made them, as denoted by the 'last edited by' comment at the end of the sheet.
If you do want to overwrite all the other changes with yours, continue by pressing "Update Character Sheet" again.


The warning for descriptions will be;

Warning!
This character description has been updated since you started also editing it.  It is strongly advised that you review the other changes.
If you do want to overwrite all the other changes with yours, continue by pressing "Update Character Description" again.

Blue text (above) will be a hyperlink that links to the view page for the sheet/description.
Piestar
member, 500 posts
once upon a time...
...there was a little pie
Sun 19 Apr 2015
at 07:26
  • msg #30

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

It would give you a heads up to save your changes elsewhere before accepting the previous changes, which is the only way I would want to use it.

I would hope the other person editing would be savvy enough to make the same decision.

The link to see the changes that were made is a nice touch.

Heck, if the changes the other person made are less extensive then mine, I could add the changes to my update before saving.

Curious, in the current 'some one else posted' functionality, if you go back,edit yours for awhile,  and yet another post is made, does it tell you that as well?
Grimmond
member, 321 posts
Antler-care by LIV THATCH
"RALPH" The Wonder Llama
Tue 21 Apr 2015
at 00:00
  • msg #31

Re: Character Sheet in use warning

Very nice !
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