You clearly missed that I was agreeing with Mad Mick, who isn't a mod but finds the current arrangement quite intuitive.  Also that I said I had never had a problem (not even when I was new to the site).

Personally, rather than having every link on every page, increasing clutter, I'd be in favour of dropping some of the redundant ones, like the ScratchPad link on the Scratchpad page (though having a link to the roller on the Dice Roller does serve a useful purpose, as clicking it returns everything to the default settings).

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 7):

Is there something I've done to offend you, personally, Ron? I'm not sure why you're coming across as if I stepped on your cat.

Since the Game Intro page is linked on the top right header, and the character details are accessible through the Cast page, that's two down and a permanent six that are non-redundant.

I'm merely expressing my opinion as another user of the site, and pointing out that you may have missed that it's not only a site moderator who doesn't have a problem with the current arrangement.

The Character Details link goes directly to a page where you can review/edit all of the character sheets.  Going through the Cast takes you to the description for a single character, and from there to the sheet for that same character.

So not quite the same functionality.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 9):

It's not the opinion I'm wondering about so much as the attitude. Yeah, I did miss the full context of your never comment as I am completely unaware of your history with the site. So if you mean to say "even before I was a mod" you might consider actually saying that the first time around.

So you're telling me that I have to be really precise about my history on this site, just to agree with what somebody else already said.  Okay, I'll bear that in mind.

And my not agreeing with you is somehow an "attitude"?  Also noted.

Sometimes I have to click a link to get the right link to pop up.  It does not bother me though.

As for BBR and an attitude? Go develop sarcasm and pissed off fonts and then see if he has one rofl.

O.o

I'm not telepathic. I don't know you mean "even before I was a mod" when you say "never". When I didn't suss out that's what you actually meant you responded like I booted your cat. That's the attitude I'm talking about, which is independent of you agreeing with me or not.

You're the "sarcastic" mod, noted.
This message was last edited by the user at 15:55, Fri 27 June 2014.

I fail to understand how this is anything other than 'a given'


Going back over BBR's post, I fail to see how this is a requirement for understanding its original context. He's responsible for what he says, not your reading comprehension.

Reading back over this whole thread, I think you guys are just misreading each other.  And I definitely think you're getting off-topic.

I find Game Intro sometimes a little hard to find -- but since it also goes the same place as the Game Info link that is always available in the top-right, I also find it strangely redundant to have at all.

Game Web Site and File Links can also be a little hard to find sometimes, and, of course, a lot of games don't use them anyway.  Like, a lot of games.  It occurs to me that I think of them as `hard to find' more because I never think to go looking on account of so few games use them.

Hold on, I have one game that uses File Links!  Hmmm.... that's neat.  I'm not sure it's very much different from Game Web Site, though?  It looks like it just lets you link to more than one page.  Is there a reason those aren't combined?  You could do the "Main Web Site" at the top, and then, "Additional Links" underneath, if and when any of those things exist...

If we took out Game Intro as redundant, and merged the External Links, there would only be 6, total, ever, and they wouldn't need to be shuffled around.

I agree with the fact that not having some links in places is somewhat annoying, as I frequently find myself trying to get to the dice roller link from the cast page and it's not there, so I have to go back to the game page and then click on dice roller. If I could have Dice Roller just be a static link on every page, that would help me out as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and probably not the only person who wishes a certain link to something appeared on every page of their game.

I've never had any trouble finding the link I'm looking for either.  And I'm the sarcastic mod.  BBR is the dark and vengeful one.  ;P

(Wassat ?  Pouring oil on troubled waters and chucking on a match ?  Moi ?!!)

Standardising links appeals to me aesthetically and programmatically, but then again, the six-sider dice icons are a truly wonderful nod to the roots of our hobby and I'd far rather keep them matter not any other considerations ...

... though that said, I do like Utsukushi's idea of combining 'em which keeps the numbers down and gives us win-win.

So +1 to a) removing Game Intro as we already have Game Info, and b) putting File Links under Game Info, which should let us pretty much standardise the rest (ie if there's a spare slot why not have the Dice Roller).

In reply to Utsukushi (msg # 15):

Agreed.

I think merging the website and other links is a really good idea, however I think the intro should really stay. Which means we've still got 7 possibilities.

Players:

1. Character Details
   
2. ScratchPad
   
3. Dice Roller
   
4. Game Map
   
5. Game Links
   
6. Game Intro
   
7. Cast

Logged in (but not a player):

1. User Preferences
   
2. Dice Roller
   
3. Game Links
   
4. Game Intro
   
5. Cast

Not logged in:

1. Dice Roller
   
2. Game Links
   
3. Game Intro
   
4. Cast

Not sure how the 7 can be trimmed.

Skip the game intro for players, since they are already in the game and don't need to reference it.

Keep the Game Info link that's not one of the variable options (top right, next to Jump) and lose the redundant Game Intro link ?  Gets us down to 6. :>

I agree, Game Intro for already-joined players seems redundant. Also, there should be other ways of getting around that if they really do want to see the Game Intro (ie. log out and then get to it, modify the current URL to get to it directly, etc.)

I hate to butt into a perfectly good argument but ...

Don't argue too awfully much about precisely how things are laid out now.  There has been some work going on slowly, behind the scenes, to redesign some things and increase usability and modernity.

I hesitate to say more at this point -- when we reach a point where we're pretty happy we'll start sharing and asking for feedback -- but it might make conversations such as what links are showing in what specific user views wholly moot.

Until then, um, carry on.
This message was last edited by the user at 15:58, Sat 28 June 2014.

-1 to 'redesign some things to increase usability and modernity'.  :P

But seriously ... this is a fairly minor tweak we're talking about, and almost certainly not worth worrying about in the context of the redesign.

Though I still want those six-sider dice icons somewhere/anywhere !  :>

Merge Game Intro and Game Links into "Game Intro and Links"?

I like the idea of merging if possible, though I'd say to group 'Game Map and Links' as they're both kind of 'add ons' to a game where the Intro is more directly relevant and likely to be used.

How is the intro relevant? All it is a short description of, and introduction to the game. Once you join it you already know all that.

It's relevant for prospective players - might contain additional or different information to the GM's advert in Player's Wanted.  Or if the GM keeps the 'players wanted flag on' and someone looking via the Browse/Search the games option on the main menu.  Or for prospective lurkers.  Or a GM might use it to store player stats (the things some people get up to).  ;>

I only see the Game Intro link as redundant to the extent that there's already a permanent link entitled Game Info at the top right of the Game menu, which points to the same place.

In reply to Skald (msg # 27):

I think it was suggested to remove it for players, not for visitors.

Yep, that's what I meant anyway.

I would suggest that the game info link needs to stay... or be accessible somehow for players... I've been in a game before, where details about the background were in the intro, and not reproduced in actual game posts.  You can say someone has to do the double work of also copying that into some post somewhere in the game, but it is valid to ask the question of why.

Now on the other hand, I'm perfectly ok with the idea of grouping some of these things together.  In fact, although I haven't been in games that used them extensively, but I don't know that I would have a problem with Game Links being displayed on the same page as either the Game Intro page or Game maps page. (since after all the maps are like one specific type of game link/resource)

I'm ok with the Game Info disappearing from by the 'dice shuffle' for players, if it stays up on the top menu.  However, I would be against it no longer being relatively easily tracked down.  If combined with the Game links, you could make the intro available to visitors, but make the links (maybe even maps) only show up for players.

In my opinion -1 for flat getting rid of Game Intro completely for players.  Otherwise, I'd be open to options that made sense.

The game info is also on the top right menu, so my expectation is that it would stay there. It just doesn't need two links.