This came up in the "Dynamic Character Sheets" thread, but I thought it deserved its own topic.

I would like the ability to create a link to the dice roller (for the game that you're in) with the dice-roller fields to be filled in (as many as are specified, with a keyword available for every field).

For instance, in my d20 game, I request that the players roll initiative, attack, and damage all in one roll, so as not to flood the dice roller log.  I even put in their character sheet the correct roll for different circumstances, such as

Walther PPK:  d20+2,d20+4,2d6

It would be cool if I could put in their sheet something like:

<dice manual="d20+2,d20+4,2d6" character="James Bond">Walther PPK</dice>

This would be seen as a link in the sheet when it isn't in edit mode, and the link would bring you to the dice roller (for the game that the document is part of) with all the fields filled in already.  The user would just have to fill in any additional fields (like 'Reason for roll') and click roll.

While I'm wishing, I'd like the character keyword to have a special meaning, in that the value assigned to it is applied EITHER to the 'Character' field or to the 'On behalf of' field, which ever one has such a value available.  (If neither do, then just ignore it.)

I'd suggest that there be a value or default unspecified value which would represent the current or default player.

I'd also suggest that the words that make up the link be the starting value for the reason, so it would begin with Walther PPK in the reason field, and character filled out as the current/default character for that player.  [there being an optional tag to do as you suggest filling out the on behalf or for fields.  If the for wouldn't be valid, it would default to the current character.]

Would there be a problem that each time you edit you get a new roll or could it be set not roll for an edit?

Fantastic idea.  Especially for the character sheet - but I also like the idea of being able to post the pre-configured link into a post...  though I see more complications in this... for example, a generic "spot check" type link being posted by the DM won't work that well for multiple people, since of course they'll presumably all have different skill modifiers - which the dice roller knows nothing about.  Good enough if all you want is a standard roll from everyone.  I can see the link taking the user directly to the dice log and the results of their roll (since it should know WHO they are (hmmm... though in retrospect maybe not if they have multiple characters per player...  maybe this does need to be limited to just via the character sheet - which should be specific to 1 character).

The tag isn't the roll and doesn't represent one.  It is just a link to the dice roller with some fields pre-filled in.  It is something the GM would create and the players would click on.  My point is that editing doesn't matter.

It might also be used by a player in his own character sheet.  He could make all the things he might roll into links so that whenever he needs to use them, rather than the current process of {Check my character sheet to get the right numbers - switch to the dice roller - fill in those numbers - roll} the process becomes {Go to the character sheet - click the link - roll}
This message was last edited by the user at 13:34, Mon 14 June 2010.

I'd prefer it take you to the dice screen and you request the roll, could help accidental stray clicks making it look like you were trying to re-roll, or that you were going to do one thing, but got a bad roll so claimed you miss, clicked and tried another skill/weapon and re-rolled.  Two clicks although not guaranteeing no mistakes could be made, it at least severely reduces them.

So interesting idea.  potentially tied back to the dynamic sheet. having Value tags in the character sheet so if you specify <dice manual="1d20" bonus=spot,blindness>

Blindness would be +0 for undefined characters, but could otherwise might be defined as a standard penalty that could be applied.

In the character sheet you would have
Skill Ranks Attribute Total
Spot  +3    +2        <value name=spot>+5</value>

Nearly Blind  <value name=blindness>-4</value> to any chance to notice anything visible.

I'd suggest the valued tags be set up so browsers that support tooltips would display the name of the value if you hover over the value.

While that is a great idea, it is also about 50 times harder to implement than a simple link.  The problem is that it means storage for all the defined attributes for each character, and looking those up as you traverse the link.  (Also consider that players may have more than one character, so it means selecting which character you meant when you followed the link.)

What I'm talking about is two pretty simple steps.
1.  Change the dice roller page to be able to initialize values that come in as arguments attached to the URL.
2.  Create a new tag that creates a link to the dice roller and appends the arguments on the URL.

No extra data storage, no other lookups, etc.

Having followed the discussions, I think Zag has it right in 2 point summary.

I see the main functional use of this would be for DMs to simplify things for their players by building specific pre-programmed rolls into their character sheets for them...  I agree putting them into posts might make it easy to mis-click - but I would suggest that perhaps to counter that, the link could take them instead to a "pre-configured" dice roller (in a separate window?) but they still then would have to click on "roll" to actually make the roll happen...

Just a thought...

Personally, I'd prefer to have it jump to the dice roller with the roll already made myself though.

  If I understand what is being said which I didn't before, the link takes you to the page with most or all filled out and ready to roll the 'Reason for Roll' lets the GM tell you what you are rolling for and the other items filled out as the GM wants.  The GM can leave off the bonuses letting each put their own in before they hit roll. or put them in if one chooses.

I think the original idea was that the link takes you to the dice roller page with all the fields filled in and the dice actually rolled. Then, all you have to do is copy the results into your post...

My last post suggested a variation which simply took you to the dice roller page with all the fields filled in - and you would then have to edit as you saw fit, and THEN hit the roll dice button.  This was suggested to address the point made by LoreGuard that there may well be lots of "accidental" rolls otherwise.  Personally, I'd go for the first version.

I can see an entry in a character sheet that might look like this:

  SKILL NAME                    KEY   SKILL ABILITY RANKS  MISC.
                             ABILITY   MOD.   MOD.         MOD.

   Appraise¹                    INT     +2    = 2    + 0    + 0
   Balance¹                     DEX*    +3    = 3    + 0    + 0
X  Bluff¹                       CHA     +2    = 2    + 0    + 0
   Climb¹                       STR*    +0    = 0    + 0    + 0

SNIP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEAPONS
NAME  : Masterwork Light Mace Click here to roll attack + Damage rolls
ATTK  : +8 [+3(BAB)+3(DEX)+1(Wpn Focus)+1(Masterwork)]
DMG   : 1d6
CRIT  : 20/x2
RANGE : n/a
WGHT  : 4.0 lb.
SIZE  : medium
TYPE  : Bludgeoning
COST  : 2gp
AMMO  : -
NOTES : Masterwork                                         

---

With the code looking something like this:

---

<b>  SKILL NAME                    KEY   SKILL ABILITY RANKS  MISC.
                             ABILITY   MOD.   MOD.         MOD.</b>

   Appraise¹                    INT     <a roll="1d20+2", reason="Appraise Roll">+2</a>    = 2    + 0    + 0
   Balance¹                     DEX*    <a roll="1d20+3", reason="Balance Roll">+3</a>    = 3    + 0    + 0
X  Bluff¹                       CHA     <a roll="1d20+2", reason="Bluff Roll">+2</a>    = 2    + 0    + 0
   Climb¹                       STR*    <a roll="1d20", reason="Climb Roll">+0</a>    = 0    + 0    + 0

SNIP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Red><u><b>WEAPONS</b></u></Red>
NAME  : <Blue>Masterwork Light Mace</blue> Click <a roll="1d20+8,1d6", reason="Light  Mace Attack and Damage rolls">here</a> to roll attack + Damage rolls
ATTK  : <a roll="1d20+8", reason="Light Mace Attack roll">+8</a> [<i>+3(BAB)+3(DEX)+1(Wpn Focus)+1(Masterwork)</i>]
DMG   : <a roll="1d6", reason="Light Mace Damage roll">1d6</a>
CRIT  : 20/x2
RANGE : n/a
WGHT  : 4.0 lb.
SIZE  : medium
TYPE  : Bludgeoning
COST  : 2gp
AMMO  : -
NOTES : Masterwork

---

I would also like to think that a tool-tip could well come up over the link to say something like "ROLL DICE: Light Mace Attack and Damage rolls - 1d20+8,1d6" to warn the player of what clicking there will do...
This message was last edited by the user at 14:13, Tue 15 June 2010.

Umm, no.  The original idea was that the user would still have to hit the roll button.

In general, I wouldn't want it to automatically do the roll.  It becomes too likely to re-re-re-roll accidentally.  However, I wouldn't object to the tag including a keyword that causes the auto-roll behavior, as long as it isn't the default.  (I'm not sure how difficult that would be.)

I like your sample, though the tag would be "dice" rather than "a".  (Also, I would have made the skill name be the link, but obviously the feature would support either way.)
This message was last edited by the user at 16:24, Tue 15 June 2010.

I like this idea.  I think you'd possibly need some way to pass the name of the system to the diceroller, for games in which you're not simply rolling one die (like Shadowrun).

The reason I put <a> as the tag is because it is similar to the <a href="www.rpol.net">Click me</a> sort of link - but of course any tag will do as long as the code behind it recognises it :-)

The dice roller page is a cgi page, so using an ordinary "a" link tag and sending the extra things as extra html link parameters then having the cgi parse the link would probably be easiest instead of trying to use a new HTML tag that would have to be custom created.  For instance...
<a href="http://rpol.net/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=GameID&date=1276633481&system=d20&dice=d20+2,d20+4,2d6&reason=James_Bond">d20+2, d20+4, 2d6 for initiative, attack, and damage for James Bond</a>

You'd possibly need to check for invalid characters.

That link uses the following new parameters (in addition to the old gi and date parameters):
system (match string variables?  integer?)
dice (add it as though it were in the ? field)
reason (add it to the "reason for roll" field, truncating if necessary)

Of course it becomes an A tag after it is evaluated, much the same way that a Red tag becomes a font tag with color="red".

   If we are asking for custom fill-in with the link, what about custom results added to the normal results? To possibly speed up what is a slow part of play in combat "if <'#' then 'text' [maybe 'hit', ‘succeed’ or ‘fall on your head’] or >'#2' then 'text2' else 'text3' "- in whatever the correct verbiage is for the system to understand. That way the GM can not only get a roll but give a preliminary response.

You can actually already fill in the sheet with rolls to do.

<a href="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=[game_id]&man=[dice_to_roll]">Roll 2d6</a>

You can also add in all the other variables;

• Set a system:  system=advant|artesia|wod1e|wod2e|wod2es|wod3e|wod3es|nwod|nwodcd|nwodcw|nwoda|ex|sh|sho|sh4e|
                          spooky|d6c|d6l|rm|fudge|rifts|1roll|sorc|hero|earth|target|tat|hackp|dead|deck52|deck54|coda|unisys|fmwerk|fullf
  (Hopefully you can guess what most of them stand for.)
  
  
• Set the extra information for a system:  target=(target number, fumble range, step number, # of cards)
  
  
• Drop/keep:  dok=dl|kh|dh|kl + drop=# of dice to drop or keep
  ('d' stands for drop, 'k' for keep, 'h' for highest, 'l' for lowest)
  
  
• Reroll maxes:  maxes=yes
  
  
• Reroll ones:  ones=yes
  
  
• Record each dice:  record=yes
  
  
• Unique dice:  unique=yes
  
  
• Reason for roll information:  memo=[text]

Make sure there's an ampersand ('&') between each option.

e.g. To roll 1d20,1d8,1d6, recording each dice for game #12345 you'd have;

<a href="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=12345&man=1d20,1d8,1d6&record=yes">Roll attack and damage on flaming longsword</a>

When clicking on the link it will take you to the dice screen and ask to confirm the roll, loading in the information from the hyperlink.  If you have more than one character you'll need to select the character before clicking on "Roll The Dice".


Edit:  Updated to reflect the minor tweak I just hacked in to stop rolls immediately happening.
This message was last edited by admin at 09:11, Sat 19 June 2010.

Awesome, amazing!  Minor quibble, the usual Shadowrun abbreviation is SR instead of SH, could that be changed?

It's late tonight (in my time zone) but the next time I'm around here I'm going to start updating character sheets.  Thanks. :)

Me too!   I have several players who have great difficulty figuring out what they should roll, so putting some pre-configured links into their character sheets will make it much easier for them/me!

Why did you keep this secret? It should  be added to the help pages.

Because it's potentially very confusing and you can end up with links like;

<a href="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=6&count=6&dice=10&mod=5&dok=dl&drop=1&maxes=yes&ones=yes&record=yes&unique=yes&memo=testing 123">testing 123</a>

<a herf="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=6&man=6d10&maxes=yes&record=yes&target=8&system=target&memo=testing 456">testing 456</a>

I'd much rather make a nicer way to do it all, something like [dice=6d6 system=shadrowrun record comment=testing 789]

The variables I've supplied (above) are just ones the form uses, not necessarily making much sense to the end user, but if you want to muddle through what is available until I've made a nicer interface, then be my guest!
This message was last edited by admin at 09:30, Sat 19 June 2010.

I don't think the memo= part is working for the reason field, is it working for anyone else or is it just me?

Way cool!  Thanks, jase!

One slight correction for anyone trying to use this:

You can't put a plus sign directly in a URL, since it will be converted to a space.  If you want to put, for instance,

man=d20+3,d20+6,2d6

then you have to change all plus signs to be %2b, so it will look like this

man=d20%2b3,d20%2b6,2d6

Hrm, are players able to use the <a> tag in their character sheets? I can get it to work as a GM, but as a player it is keeping the entire thing in plain text.

What is the option for making it a "secret roll?"

No, players can't use <a> tags. Maybe an exception could be added for internal links??

Use "secret=yes" for secret rolls. -- Actually, "secret=foo" works just as fine right now. ;)

Hmmm... struggling to get this to work at the moment...  I can't get the memo (aka reason) to fill in.

Here is what I'm trying:
(Click <a href="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=11111&man=d20%2b7&secret=yes&memo=Fortitude_Saving_Throw">HERE</a> to roll)

Also, I read above that Jase hacked things so that the link wouldn't auto-roll - but instead take them to the dice roller with things filled in... what is the chance of an option similar to:  "&autoroll=yes" to allow the link to be configured to roll immediately - with the default being "no" of course!
This message was last edited by a moderator at 20:08, Mon 21 June 2010.

Well I guess these are all reasons why jase kept this a secret then!

I think no autoroll is good -- should help stop a flood of mistakes as people test the links they're making.  I'm glad that someone else can't get the memo thing to fill in a reason, for the past couple of days since I posted that it wasn't working for me I've thought it was something that I was doing wrong. ;)

Yeah, I can't post this on a character sheet either.  I've been posting in a regular post, previewing it then opening the link in a new window, then not actually making the post when I'm done, but I can't post the link on a character sheet.

Once we understand how it works and feel comfortable in using it - even players will be able to put it on their character sheets - but just not as an <a href=""></a> type link.  Instead, they'll just have to have the ugly long url there as a link.
This message was last edited by the user at 16:31, Mon 21 June 2010.

It actually says "link to another game", so it's better than the whole URL... but not as good as being able to just make my +7 attack bonus a link.

In reply to jazzman831 (msg #28):

Yeah... not quite ready for prime-time.

I've hacked in a little bit more, the memo should now work (oops, typo stopped that working) and players should now see the full pretty links just like a GM (previously anyone could edit in a full hyperlink, but only the GM would see it as a hyperlink).

Jase you are so awesome!!!! I'm now going to go and hyperlink just about everything.

Ah yes, and if you want a + in your roll you need to use "%2b" instead, as a "+" in HTML is converted to a space.  You can also list each part of the roll separately as "count=6&dice=10&mod=5" (or whatever), but that only lets you have the one roll, not multiples.

And speaking of pluses, if you want a space in your memo, then either use + or %20.  E.g.  "memo=This+is%20a+memo" will give you a memo of "This is a memo".

Thanks Jase for sorting the memo argument.  That works well now.

Am I right in saying there is a cn=charactername argument that can also be used?  If so, then I don't seem to be able to get it to work...

Here is an example of the link I'm using:
http://www.rpol.net/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=000000cn=Ceely&man=d20%2b7&secret=yes&memo=Fortitude_Saving_Throw

It doesn't fill in the character name...  which shouldn't be a problem for my players, since they only have one character each, but as DM (or for any players who have more than one character), I have a choice of "Character"/"On behalf of" when filling in the dice roller, so it would be useful from my perspective not to have to then perform another couple of clicks to select the character as well when it should be possible to fill it in automatically...  I quite often roll dice for my players on their behalf... and being able to do it one/two clicks from their character sheet would be excellent.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 14:01, Wed 23 June 2010.

Those options are called "rc=CharacterName" or "bo=CharacterName". Works like a charm!

"rc" is if you want to roll as the character, "bo" is if you want to roll on behalf of.

FYI they'll be changing in the next version as characters will be identified via their unique ID from then on.

Will it be difficult to figure out what a character's ID is?

I imagine it will simply be a matter of clicking on their character information link, and looking at the URL it sends you to. :)

So, not on an iPhone?

This is awesome!

If the new character ids are like the game id, it will be visible on an iPhone.

As long as I can edit a character sheet outside of rpol and do a find and replace to change the character name into an ID - I'll be fine with it :-)

I've already documented most of the characters I play and most of the players in my game with pre-configured dice rolls for them...

I've implemented more of this on the alpha site.

Using the "dice" keyword, you can get the character sheets (and messages) to setup dice roller links.

A simple example of this is...

[dice=2d6]

Spaces separate keywords for the roller, so where you previously had ampersands (&) you now have spaces.  This then means that the memo field must have quotes around it so we know when it ends.

To use my previous example (message 17)

<a href="/usermodules/diceroller.cgi?gi=12345&man=1d20,1d8,1d6&record=yes">Roll attack and damage on flaming longsword</a>

... will become ...

[dice=1d20,1d8,1d6 record=yes memo="Attack and damage on flaming longsword"]

This will create a hyperlink that will be displayed as:

Roll 1d20,1d8,1d6 (for Attack and damage on flaming longsword)


Links from a character sheet will automatically select the character the sheet is for and setup the roll for that character.  If the viewing person is the GM then it will setup a "On Behalf of" roll.

The system also knows what game you're in, so game id (gi=) is no longer needed.

Viewing from a message will not automatically select a character, though if you only have one character (as I'd expect with most people) then this will be a moot point.

All other parameters stay the same as previously listed.

Input welcome on the way this is currently developing.

Note I'm not using the "roll" keyword as I'm still contemplating using this for in-line rolls.

Code that express the dice roll attempts' description AND inputs actual dice rolls itself?  Nifty Jase.  Do dice rolls made in a thread via code record themselves to the dice roller log, and are dice roll results in message editable?

This sounds nice. I think it will improve my RPoL experience a lot. Now the only thing I need is a history for character sheet edits and I can use this instead of an external Wiki for my characters. ;)

Anyway, a few notes: I think I already mentioned somewhere else that I prefer the <dice> syntax to the [dice] syntax. Easier to type, especially on European keyboards and the majority of RuBB tags already use it.

Could you add a option that specifies the text displayed on the sheet? This way, more aesthetically pleasing sheets could be created if

<b>Attacks</b>
Longsword [dice=1d20+4,1d8+2,1d20,1d8+2 record=yes memo="Attack,dmg,confirm,critdmg" text="+4, d8+2 (x2)"]
<b>Skills</b>
Appraise [dice=1d20+2 memo="Appraise" text="+2"]
Bluff    [dice=1d20+2 memo="Bluff, bluff, bluff, bluff..." text="+4"]

becomes

Attacks
Longsword <a href="foo">+4,d8+2 (x2)</a>
Skills
Appraise +2
Bluff    +4

instead of

Attacks
Longsword Roll 1d20+4,1d8+2,1d20,1d8+2 (for Attack dmg,confirm,critdmg)
Skills
Appraise Roll d20+2 (for Appraise)
Bluff    Roll d20+4 (for Bluff, bluff, bluff, bluff...)


I'm not sure if I like the "If you're the DM, then it will setup 'On Behalf Of'" part. If I want to hide the result from the player in question (which is frequently the case) this costs me a couple of clicks, because "On Behalf Of" rolls are visible to the player (right?). An extra option like "onbehalf=no" might be super special awesome.

Cool, this feature will certainly be a great addition to the current dice roller link functionality.

I would second the usefulness of a option to specify an override for the display text.  I'd then suggest having the 'full' text show up as the tooltip when you mouse over it.  If allowing free text over-ride of the text isn't considered something you want to allow, I'd suggest you at least allow a 'short' form which would just display the 3d4+2 instead of the whole part (again with the tooltip showing the full text).

Currently this is just a link to roll the dice, all logging is done in the dice roller as per usual.  The GM can, however, say "everyone roll a reflex saving throw", and add in [roll=1d20 memo="Save vs fireball" text="Save vs fireball (don't forget to add your bonus!)"].  Each user would click on the link, change the +/- modifier to their saving throw bonus and then hit "Roll the Dice".  Everything else will be filled out for them (users with more than one character would also have to select the appropriate character).


Added the "text" portion.  Without it it will now just have "Roll <dice>".  The hover-over in either situation will have the memo information.

I've kept it [dice=..] at this stage as angled brackets is more for formatting options.  Private lines, private notes, languages and other such stuff are still square brackets.

I'm still up for changing anything of this.
This message was last edited by the user at 09:12, Sun 16 Jan 2011.

I love it!

Setting systems requires knowing what all the codes for each system are, but aside from that it should be fairly straightforward for users.



This is a really good point. I'd vote to keep it this way even if it's a little harder to type.

Fantastic work Jase.

One thought - as DM, I often use the "DM's Character sheet" to contain links for rolls that I make on behalf of the party.  Would it be possible to have an optional argument so that you can override the default that it chooses the owner of the character sheet or "on behalf of"?  Plus the secret option.

For example:
[dice=1d20+5 record=yes memo="Spot Check" DM=yes secret=yes]

Argh, Alhaja, you highlighted my poor grammar!  (c;


In reply to matthewfenn (msg #49):

You can use all the old options listed previously in this thread, including rc and bo, which will override whatever it would default to otherwise.

Just to clarify: This means that in your sheet, you'd have Walter PPK, and when you clicked it, it would bring to the dice roller with either the stats already rolled, or entered so all you have to do is click "Roll the dice," correct?

Yep.  That link might look something like;

[roll=1d20+5,1d10+2 memo="Walter PPK Attack and Damage" text="Walker PPK"]