Is there an estimate on when paid accounts will be implemented?  If not, I would like to request it be prioritized.  There's a great feature sitting in Beta that will take ages to see the light of day, and I'm sure there are a dozen others.  Jase effectively said in the languages post that short of hiring him, there's no way to rush those things forward.  I can neither afford his rates personally or afford the time to do a fund raiser, but I do think that implementing a membership option would enable him to justify putting more time into the site.


Looking back at previous rPolls, I see the following numbers (All USD)


If we assume that someone who's willing to pay $X/month is also willing to pay less/month, then the total income based on these votes breaks down to:



Assuming that the lowest fee is the most stable (a business major would need to chime in here, there might be something to be said for undervaluing a product) even at $12/year with 50% actual turnout, the membership would cover site costs, anything above that would help build a development fund so that those of us willing to donate to the fund to get more features could have something to look at to get a sense of when their desired improvements might be coming.

Plus we wouldn't have to retain those annoying ancient RTJ age statements anymore. ;-)

If the feature is already on the Beta Site, then it will be moved over here once it's finished, and has been properly tested (and testing involves people who are still only using the site in their spare time, so there's no real way to make them work faster).  Even when it's all finished, it may not be moved over immediately - jase may decide to wait because he has three (or four, or a dozen) other changes that he'd like to put in at the same time.

Subscription is unlikely to make any difference to a feature which is currently on the Beta Site.

As for when subscriptions will be introduced - the answer is usually something like, "When jase has finished coding the system, and is sure he has all the bugs ironed out."

paid accounts?

Are there plans now to make this anything but a free site where you voluntary pay for things?

Adult game access has been planned to be put behind a paywall for as long as I've been on the site.

More details can be found here: link to a message in another game

Note that the site will still be free to use, but subscriptions will be available (for those who want them), and will offer extra features.

So, if people are unwilling or unable to pay they will be kicked out of gamers that are nor rated adult? I am sure that this would mean that almost every game out there with the tag adult on it will crash to a halt.

Count myself on the "I don't think this is a good idea camp".

They've been planning that to play in adult games you would require to go on a subscription. That subscription then secures the age info so no more RTJ logging.

BBR et al have been saying that general usage remains free.

There will be some features made available only to paid subscriptions.

The only mandatory thing will be to GM/play in adult games.

All other games remain accessible with similiar features as they have now.

(My understanding of the stiuation) = MUOTS

(plus, you'd only have to pay for a subscription once in order to have access to adult material, er, forever; think of it as a one-time age verification process if you don't want to subscribe normally)

Not exactly.  The site, overall, will continue to get new features.  So with subscriptions in place, everybody would get the new "language tag" feature mentioned elsewhere... but subscribers would get something extra (a few extra groups, or a second new feature).

@Gwenlynn

This change was first announced as far back as May 2005.  The notice regarding it, which was linked to above, has been in place since then.  It has, long since, been decided upon.  It's not a new idea, and it will happen, eventually.

-1.

I for one have never paid for any online product of any kind. More over paying for adult access is effectively moraly identical to hiring a hooker. I run two adult games, when the pay to play aspect is implemented I will promptly delete both of them. I like this site because it is free and open, when that stops being the case I will likely stop using it.

There is nothing to vote on here.  The decision was made almost five years ago.

The site will continue to be free and open.  However, those who choose to do so, will be able to subscribe in order to get access to additional features.

Those subscriptions will, in turn, pay for future development and improvement of the site.

I didn't intend to start a vote on this, just to make a case for expediting it so that future features will in turn be expedited.  Considering the main hindrance seemed to be Jase's desire to pay the bills and put food on the table, it only makes sense to me to make this site paying work for him.


On a side note, I got this || close to winning $5000 on a scratchoff today.  Eh well.

LOL. The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

In reply to Mortuis (msg #12):

Unfortunately, in order to expedite it, jase would first need to quit working (and paying bills) so that he would have the extra time to do the work...

Or those who would be spending the money on candy anyway and figure there's something worth gaining by blowing it on a ticket. ;-)

Or a chunk of cash to hire him to do it, as he implied in the language groups thread.

So what you're saying, BBR, is that adult access will not be negatively affected by our decision regarding subscriptions?

I'm not saying any such thing.  What I am saying is that the decision was taken five years ago, and is still in the works.

Edit: There is, in fact, a positive aspect to subscription-only Adult access - it would also serve as age verification, meaning that every applicant to any adult game has already had their age checked and confirmed by RPoL.  GMs could stop worrying about Moderators coming in and removing players from their games because age checks had not been carried out adequately.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 21:21, Tue 23 Mar 2010.

No matter how it works in the end, there either needs to be a "adult games that started before <date> don't require subscription, nothing changes for them" or at least a long transition period where people aren't excluded from games they already play, giving them a chance to subscribe eventually, or they decide that the game is now run as mature instead.

Otherwise the day that goes online almost all adult games will either loose their GM or a bunch of their players or both, which effectively forces everyone to stop.

If after this is in effect someone doesn't want to subscribe and isn't allowed into adult games, ok, fine, but implementing it on already running games is a huge risk.

Read the thread linked to above.  It specifically says that there will be a transition period.

It also mentions the possibility of a limited offer when subscriptions are first introduced - life-time adult access, plus a one year subscription, for the cost of a single year's subscription.

Doesn't work that way.  It's accounts that will be subscribing, not games.  No matter when the game started, players would still need to subscribe to have Adult access.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 21:36, Tue 23 Mar 2010.

Ok BBR sorry to re-hash this but I can't find a clear answer anywhere really.

Does the subscription system mean no access to Adult games without a subscription? (even if it's just a one off subscription with lifetime Adult access).

I don't have an Adult rated game (not sure I actually will have either), but I do play in a couple. I know I have absolutely zero disposable income (talk to my bank manager and she will tell you that I actually have negative disposable income), so I will not be able to subscribe for a few years - if ever. I'm just trying to get a clarification if I would lose access to those games (whenever the system was introduced) or if there were any other ways of verifying age without buying a subscription?

Thanks in advance

Those who do not subscribe at all (even with the one-off offer) will have no access to Adult games on the site after subscriptions are phased in.

I know that seems unfair to some, but it was a decision that we thought long and hard about.  There are many reasons for this; some of them include the enormous amount of time and effort that must go into moderating a site which has adult games on it, and some of it is the potential legal problems that having adult games opens up for us.

It was determined that most folks would rather that adult games were put behind a subscription wall than have adult games taken completely off the site (which would be another viable alternative).

While I would feel bad that there are people out there who cannot afford a subscription, no matter how low the cost is, I would hope they would understand they were still welcome here to particpate in and run non-adult games, but that, at some point on RPoL, adult games will not be an option for them.  Some content will be accessable only through a subscription, but the largest part of the site will remain free, as it is now.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 23:05, Tue 23 Mar 2010.

There are no 'final answers' on subscriptions at all as far as costs go or how long a transition period might be offered.  I suggest that we just wait and see.

Any answer you get right now will be based on opinion -- and given the length of time it's been since subscriptions were first brought up, the last posted opinions may be as relevant as last year's horoscopes.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 23:06, Tue 23 Mar 2010.

Ok that's fine as long as I know where I stand on things. I like the site and how it currently works - having a blast running/playing games here despite a few teething problems. If I can't keep playing the Adult games (or run one if the mood takes me), then that's the price I will gladly pay to have a great little site like this .

Hopefully I'll be able to get a subscription when it comes in though and forestall these possibilities.

Cheers

All I can say to this is that I have seen quite a few free sites on the net go pay site. Not a single one survived a year after that step.

A best case scenario would be 50% of the players who play in adult games pay for a subscription. That is highly optimistic. Still it means that each and every adult game with crash, and new ones won't find players.

It's a really, really bad idea.

If you need to make money off the site, look into ads. You could have banner rotations and stuff like that. That does not kill any games but it provides an income.

Ads are a horribly bad idea, imo, especially in this day and age when so many of them contain content which is wildly inappropriate, where the site must constantly be honing the ad filters to avoid these sorts of problems, or in which the ads are frequently filled with viruses, false claims, misleading information, and so on.  We've said many times we do not wish to host ads, and are not planning to do so.

In the end, we are not going to go to being a Pay Site.  We are going to go optional Subscription for those who wish to subscribe.  All non-adult games will remain free, as we've said plenty of times.

We have a situation that can only improve: right now, very few Adult game GMs or players pay the site.  If 50% do, that's a vast improvement.  Intead of most (99%?  more?) of Adult gamers using site resources we'd have a smaller number, but 100% of whom are supporting the site.  For those who do not play adult games on the site (which I think is the vast majority) subscriptions will only add to their experience here (with some nice perks), but those who do not subscribe will not be missing anything they already have.


But finally...

I would like to remind folk that we're happy to provide information as we have it.  That said, this isn't a thread for debating if we should have a subscription service; that was decided some time ago and I would trust anyone who's taken the time to read the notices in the General forum has had plenty of time to get used to the idea and loads of time to relocate their gaming if that's what they choose to do.

Keep in mind that the idea was decided on in 2005.  Changes may occur in the plan, and we'll keep everyone informed if that happens.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 23:48, Tue 23 Mar 2010.

Well I fear with being in Germany I will not be able to subscribe. I do not care about adult games but I might want the extra options. As I neither have a credit card nor a pay pal option and bank transfers are way too expensive I'm out of luck I guess.

It's probably a premature worry given that (after 5 years) the system is not worked out, nor do we know what means we will use.

I guess alot of adult games will downgrade to mature if that happens, if they think its possible (that is, nothing really adult had happened in the game, or they delete the adult stuff, and decide to continue without it).

One thing you should realise though, just because someone is able to pay a monthly/yearly fee does in no way mean that they're adults. Alot of teens are masters in getting their parents to pay for all kinds of stuff.
So I'm not sure if that will add any more security than the "I'm 18 and allowed to do this" statements

Yes, we've already considered that possibility.  Please see post #3 in the original for jase's reasoning on it.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 02:02, Wed 24 Mar 2010.

I'm fine with it, but I think that people who pay shouldn't be called subscribers, but "age verified" people.  Otherwise, it seems that implementing this would draw more attention to the adult gaming area and make it seem like adult gaming is the "cool thing" that people here ascribe to be able to do.  Either that or split it up.  Some people are subscribers, some are age verified, some are both, some are neither.

Since they'll all actually be paying for a subscription, why wouldn't they all be called subscribers?  And for those who access RPoL from work, they might consider that "subscriber" would look better if their boss glances at the screen over their shoulder, than "age verified", or "Adult access granted", or the like.

Besides, I intend to subscribe, but not in order to verify my age but rather to support the site.

I'm still not sure how a subscription verifies age. Parents buy their kids all sorts of subscriptions for online sites. So "age verified" as name for the subscription makes no sense. Unless you are saying minors cannot subscribe, which would be somewhat of a discrimination if they want the other gimmicks.

You could throw a checkbox into the subscription order process, "I verify that I am 18+" or whatever's relevant.  Children of unconcerned parents would still get into the adult games, but they're on the hook for misrepresenting their children's information on the account.

Yes, parents might buy subscriptions for their kids, but if they want the kids to have Adult access they will be required to specifically request it:

"Hey, dad, can you buy me a subscription for RPoL?  Oh, and can you make sure that you pay for Adult access too?"

Then there is the situation where being discovered as a minor, "Hey, it's my birthday today, and mom and dad are taking me to get a burger, because they have a special offer on kids' meals... " will mean that the subscription would be cancelled, with no refund.

In reply to Lwaxy (msg #34):

If you have a better idea which is not a third party pay-for-verification site, then please do feel free to drop us an rMail (use the to/cc Moderators checkbox) and fill us in on the details.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 22:14, Wed 24 Mar 2010.

I was under the impression that subscribers can just request adult access, without paying again? So parents probably would not notice.

cruinne, will do.

I know this is a lot in one post, but the thread is still almost brand new, and already almost 40 posts long. :) I had some catching up to do.

Quick summary of my comments for those who don’t want to read the whole thing:

* A LOT of thought and discussion has gone into the issue of subscriptions and adult access.  Yes it was initially decided about five years ago, but it was still under lively discussion less than a year ago.  That is how seriously the community takes this issue.

* RPoL is not becoming a subscription site.  Subscriptions will be an option to help you support the site if you want.

* Subscription is not 100% about Age Verification.

* If an adult signs their kid up, and says they are an adult, there is not a lot we can do about it.  The legal burden though will then primarily be on the parent rather than RPoL. (Note, I am not a Lawyer).  The ability to pay for things online is the primary form of verification used by most of the verification services anyway.

---

In reply to chrisormie (msg #21):
In reply to cruinne (msg #22):

There was a LOT of discussion about it.  As was mentioned earlier, the decision was basically made five years ago... BUT they were still ironing out details less than a year ago.

The biggest issue with Adult games has always been the legal aspects vs the hassle of dealing with age verification.

Asking a person their age has always been in the legally grey area, right from the start.  On the other hand, getting someone to pay for a subscription has always been accepted online in place of age verification.  The assumption being that in order to pay for something online a person either has to be of age or have someone who is looking over their shoulder.

Ultimately the issue is about letting the largest group of people possible do what they want to do, while not having the legal burden resting on RPoL’s shoulders.

To be blunt, if it ever comes to anything even looking like a court battle, the site is done for, gone, caput.  RPoL does not have the funds to deal with the legal side of things if it comes to it.  For that reason, in all things potentially involving liability, the site will generally go for the safe route.  Under the circumstances, I agree with that policy.

---

In reply to Betty.P (msg #25):

Overall, RPoL is not really going to become a pay site.  :-)

The ONLY thing that people currently have access too for free that will become a subscriber only option is Adult games.  This site is NOT about Adult games.  They are simply something that happens here.

The subscription aspect will mostly be a way for people who want to support the site to do so more easily.  As an added benefit, they will get a few extra features that will make things a little more interesting for them.  These features are never intended to be make or break features.  Anything that turns out to be a make or break type thing will end up being available to everyone.

I personally intend to sign up as soon as subscriptions come available, just so that I can support the site.  I already make donations on occasion, but under the current model it ends up being, "Whenever I think about it."

Anyone who has played in my games will tell you I am a scatterbrain. :)  When I think about it could be consistent, or it could be random and sporadic.

Add banners are not a great idea at the moment, because most organizations that run them do not run them properly.  In most cases, if you see three banners, one will be perfectly fine one will offend half of your audience, and the third will be virus ridden and or pornographic in nature.

There is nothing like browsing a news blog, and on one page getting an add telling you to find Jesus, and the very next page (same site) full frontal nudity (both in the add banners, not the site's content).  You would be amazed at the arguments that pop up too, over which of the two is more offensive. >:P

---

In reply to Shaili (msg #29):

^_^  If they get their parents to pay for it, then the legal burden is on their parents.

---

In reply to Genghis the Hutt (msg #31):

O.o
Calling them "Age Verified" would make subscription 100% all about adult games, and have the exact same impact (if not worse) that you seem to think calling them subscribers would have.

The subscription service is not about Age Verification.

---

In reply to Lwaxy (msg #38):

It will only be one fee, but they will have to make the request as part of the process.

Great, so as long as I don't ask for it, I won't have to see any adult games on the forums either I guess. Or maybe there will be an extra forum.

No matter if I can get my hubby to use his credit card for this or not, I will be happy when this is implemented.

In reply to Mortuis (msg #16):

What I was really trying to imply was that I can't devote as much time to RPoL as I wish I could.  I have my own bills to pay as well a 50% share in small consulting business, which means the business has it's own bills and I have responsibilities to the business as well as my business partner.


In reply to Lwaxy (msg #27):

I sometimes wonder if I've left anything worth subscribing to!  The things I thought I'd add in as value-add keep on creeping in as part of the core.  But to be honest I'm happy with that, from what I can tell many will subscribe out of a desire to see the site flourish, not out of want for a bigger scratchpad.


As for references to becoming a pay to play site;

Are hotmail or google mail "pay to email" sites?  No, they're free for everyone to use, but they do have premium accounts.  Similarly it has never been suggested that RPoL become a "pay to play" site.  Referring to the (long ago) proposed changes as such does a disservice to anyone who reads the words and takes them as gospel, as well as indicating that the poster has not understood the proposed changes (and makes me doubt the relevance of anything else they say).


I should amend the original thread, much has changed since then, namely the timeline, real life has a nasty habit of getting in the way!  Boy has that timeline stretched out!

Oh I'll be happy not to have to see the adult stuff anymore, that alone is worth a subscription if i can manage it :o)

Lwaxy, I've played here since the site opened, and I haven't been forced to view any adult content at all.

I'm curious as to how you're being subjected to it against your will - can you provide examples?

Well I don't know about Lwaxy but I am soo sick of seeing all the Adult game adds in Wanted Players. But since no one is home at the Adult Game Adds board, we all have no other option.

I feel much the same way about the anime ones, but I avoid this problem by only reading those ads which sound like games that aren't anime.

As the Adult ads must be flagged as such, and most of these have it in the title, is it appearance of the word Adult that is currently causing this distress?

Probably the fact it doesn't say it until you open the advert (unlike the genres, making it easier to avoid anime!).  Never thought about that before, must fix that!

I did not mean using those banner companies. There are quite a lot of roleplaying companies who would pay for having their banner in a rotation. This site has lots of roleplayers, the ideal target audience.

In reply to Jhael (msg #45):

It is not the appearance of the word adult, but rather how descriptive the subject lines are without using any restricted words.

I just feel there are a whole lot of adult flagged games in the players wanted section. With some, it makes sense because of the genre (like Ravenloft for the darkness of it all) but games which openly say they have graphic sex scenes or seem to be based on mainly sex should not be here at all. At least that's how I feel about it. There is something disturbingly wrong to me about using an RPG site for such things. There are other types of sites out there for that.

I have no minors in the house anymore, but I know if my son would have wanted to play here when he was younger, he would have been disturbed by some of the adult game descriptions alone. And you can just click on them by accident at times.

Yes, it's funny how they end up accidentally on the sticky list, isn't it?

I'm not talking about the "sticky" list as you would need to click on the game info for that to happen (although it can be confusing when games end up there just because you looked at a game). I'm talking about the game adverts themselves.

We try very hard to ensure that any ad in the Wanted-Players forum is suitable for all ages: no graphic descriptions, no bad language, &c.  If you see one that falls outside these bounds, please notify us as we'll check it out.

Now, that doesn't mean that merely mentioning your game is Adult is going to qualify.  I've seen complaints about really innocuous language because of "what the language could mean in the worst possible interpretation" and I think that's generally being a bit too sensitive about it.  But we do try very hard to make sure that the public RPoL boards are safe for all users, no matter their ages.

I think a nice to have for a paid account would be the ability to save your own "Game Template" which you can copy from when you create a new game.

There are certain threads I always set up, Game Status, FAQ, OOC Chat..It'd be nice to just click "Copy" from a premade template.

Additionally, if there were some hand picked templates already out there, it would be nice to have the option to start with a few prepackaged generic ones as an option for those of us who prefer it to the blank page method.
This message was last edited by the user at 19:57, Sun 04 Apr 2010.

I second the Game Creation templates that Malakhon suggested. They would be quite useful.

I'll add my voice to Malakhon's as well. Not sure how this would play out as far as resources and coding -- as I recall, my next programming class will give me a more realistic idea of what Jase goes through for us ^^;; -- but if it's feasible, it would be quite useful.

If not, it's a matter of a few minutes, unless you're running a number of the same game, with the same environment, over and over -- in which case your custom template might get larger than Jase's storage space for it. >.>;;

*cough cough* Tentacles in SPAAAAACCCCCEEEE (Adult)

Three's Company (Adult)

Get yer groove on (Adult)

Sometimes related content (XXX Wanted Titles) is rather suggestive. Ive seen those actual or similiar titles appearing.

Young children see the same game Ad titles and are gonna ask questions...
This message was last edited by the user at 00:25, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

Honestly, none of the above seem particularly racy or inappropriately suggestive to me, nor would they be anything I'd worry about a kid reading.  I agree a person with a filthy mind could read them in disgusting ways, depending on what's going on in their own head, but ... Three's Company?  Really?  Couldn't just be a game based on the TV show of the same name from the 70s?

(With the right tone a person can turn "I'm going to wash the dishes then take out the garbage," into somethingfilthy. ;-)  But honestly, game titles like the above are not something I'd be ever willing to bust someone on as "inappropriate to general audiences".)

So, let me reiterate:  I've seen complaints about really innocuous language because of "what the language could mean in the worst possible interpretation" and I think that's generally being a bit too sensitive about it.


As Jhael asked: is it the word "adult" with those other words that make people squirm?  Would you read them as so suggestive if the word "adult" was not in the subject line?
This message was last edited by a moderator at 01:05, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

What (Adult) uses do you know of for Tentacles other than sexually suggestive? Seriously.

edit:
I seriously look forward to the Adult games not appearing on my Wanted lists. At all.
This message was last edited by the user at 01:10, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

How many children would think of sexually suggestive = tentacles?

Or would they think ... there's an octopus in space - that's silly.

Maybe if they're already seeing that as suggestive, they already been exposed to the concept somewhere else.

I think the point is that the word "tentacles" is not obscene, nor should we say it is a word GMs cannot use in their game titles.  And they're quite tasty in sushi (of which most kids are not fond! :P).

I can understand the preference to be able to filter out adult games if that's not what you're looking for.  (I'd like to filter out anything with any anime or Twilight theme, ever!)  I'd be careful, however, about suggesting non-obscene words are suddenly obscene just because the game they're used in is adult. It's not a path I'd want to tread as a moderator for certain.
This message was last edited by a moderator at 01:16, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

The sexually suggestive is the (Adult) tag. Adult most common purpose is for sex related gaming. It is the added details of the Ad name with a commonly sexual flag that is offensive.

Tentcales blah blah (Adult)

is known to commonly mean

Tentacles blah blah (Sexual gaming)

I very much beleive some of the Game Ad names need smarter filtering. Im an adult and I HAVE found some offensive in their implications of immorality, adultery or other offensive acts.

I don't begrudge that they could run their games with those who agree and are approved for Adult gaming. As I don't agree to adult gaming I don't want to see the offensive suggestive names.

(Not to pick on Tentacles to much, it just happens to be more offensive than others as there is a whole branch of Anime about Tentacles )

Um brygun, I think any kids young enough for those tittles to be something they would 'ask about' probably don't belong on RPOL In the first place. Let them cut their teeth with RP on Gaia Online, or Hero Quest, or Evony, or Maple Story, or any of the hundreds of other sites which don't even HAVE adult games. I expect a certain level of maturity and understanding from players in my games, something that your average 7 year old would not possess, nor 10 year old ether. By the time you have that level of maturity if you are on the internet you know more about the 'adult' side of things than your parents would really like.

But ARE on RPOL seeing the same Adult* Game Ads as everyone else. (*Adult commonly meaning "with sex")

I look forward to having the all Adult, even game ads, tucked away behind a selectable option. Which is what I understand is that you must have a subscription and then request/select Adult access. Keep the Game Ads for Adult in the same closet.

edit:
And even as an adult some are offensive. The Adult flag is their commonly for sex so put aside the fluffy about their being no sexual implications at all.

Divorce play (with sex)

Adultry play (with sex)

Immoral 3 person play (with sex)

Tentacles blah blah (with sex)

>IS< and >HAS< been offensive.

Please put the Adult Ads behind the subsciption + adult-select feature.
This message was last edited by the user at 01:41, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

I understand.  I think it's wrong to assume "Adult" means "sexual", even most of the time -- and remember, I'm one of those responsible for looking over the adult games on the site.  But we understand.

I think that clears it up, however -- the problem is not the titles, it's the word "adult" in close proximity that throws a few folks' brains into a TMI froth.  Something to ponder for us, I think.

Actually, 'Adult' doesn't necessarily mean 'with sex' -- as quite a few ads go on to specifically point out.

I hope, however, that ads for adult games continue to be visible to those who want to see them -- otherwise, people might not realize that there is a whole subset of games, some of which might contain erotica and some of which does not, available to those who subscribe and help support the site.

Ok, I understand that to many people, "Adult" = "Sex".  However, this is NOT the entire case.  Adult, especially as denoted by the TOS (as I understand it), may mean anything from "there may/will be suggestive situations" to "foul language" to "I don't want kids in my game because I expect a certain level of maturity from my players".  Placing Adult games behind a subscription veil removes many of these otherwise completely harmless games from the grasp of many mature, viable players.

Again, RPoL may happen to have games which delve into sexual situations, but that's not what the forum is made for, or about.  Merely a side-effect of being an open forum on the internet.

I also understand that not everyone wants to look at game ads for Adult games.  But, as many moderators have said on numerous occasions, no one is forcing you to open and read these ads or their games.

I do agree that the Adult games should have the (Adult) in their title.

While there are other reasons why a game might have the (Adult) flag it is something strongly associated with Sex.

In a Star Trek game we went with Mature due to the occasional violence. We talked about Adult to allow more descriptive wounds... phasers could do so much more horrible things than guns. We didn't want the "sex" implications of Adult so stayed at Mature.


Summary:

yes to (Adult) in adult game titles, i'd like to know not to go there

some adult game ads* I, an adult, have found offensive

no I dont want to see adult game ads even if I have a subscription.

* and I dont mean anything to do with "opening" the game... the titles of the game ads themselves have (past tense) caused offense
This message was last edited by the user at 01:58, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

In reply to Brygun (msg #67):

I have made this point a time or two myself.

I find it amazing that people actually use them. Some look like they come ritght out of a porn spam add.

@.@

   I believe that Adult games should have "Adult" in them and yes

 I am 51 Years old, Born January, 1959 and can view adult materials in my place of residence, and have read, understand, and accept RPOL’s Adult contents policy.
   I have wandered in to see what kind of game it was sexual and otherwise. Some choose to it to avoid limits on descriptive writing not wanting to be saddled with the talk around much less the overt fade to black.  I happen to be good at both but that is often because I am cold blooded enough to actually think about what my character is doing and why, and either talk or block around it.

  I have run into several variations on Adult both in "Mature" and "Adult"
in one the descriptions where not the focus it was not having to limits on unacceptable character language, another was I don't want you to be younger then this because I am sick and tired of the trouble some of you have caused me.  I have a very heavy interest in playing Alignment there is a reason most games don't want evil playing the kind of rage and dominance issues that alignment has properly has to go under adult even if there is no sex involved and guess what that is where some games try and go.

  I have no problem with the adult marked games being hidden from those who don't want it on their search.  But I seem to think that I remember that currently RPOL principles require the adult question to be asked by GMs to keep RPOL out of the line of fire but RPOL enforces that those questions are asked if you want to play.
  But while I really don't have any interest in playing text base sex games, I would put up with searching them to find Challenging Alignment play.  But to find that you have to let the GMs describe the type of game and since the Question isn't asked until your RTJ.  I have no problem with such descriptions even if they would make me uncomfortable as long as the moderators can use a phrase I heard a comedic act use at a pirate festival “If your kids understood that it is not my fault”

Marking Adult games “Adult” +1
Allowing a search to exclude adult if the searcher wants I’ll through in a  +1
      even though I won’t use it.
Allow moderators to use their judgment as to descriptions NOT based on worst possible meaning.  +1

Cavet, that that should be default mode. Thus if I open the Wanted-Players* the display is originally non-adult games. To see adult games as well I need to have set myself to adult-okay (which would in the future also require a subscription).


*: typically that is where it is. Wanted-GMs and GPIA could share the same code.
This message was last edited by the user at 12:32, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

OK, I suppose I'll weigh in on the current (meh, who'm I kidding, the ongoing) discussion about adult games.

First and foremost, as has been said above (but reiteration is the spice of life!), adult does not immediately equal sex, even though sex immediately equals adult. (A is not a subset of B; B is, however, a subset of A.) Games are flagged adult for graphic violence, for a GM's desire to weed out young players (in the understood interest of weeding out immature players... doesn't necessarily work that way, but it's some GMs' preferred method), or simply to allow players access to the entire George Carlin list of Words You Can't Say (internet version).

I fully understand that a number of Adult games are, in fact, roleplayed smut. (I'm sure, if asked nicely, the devs could give us an approximate percentage.) This doesn't offend me, but it doesn't draw me in either. I accept and respect that this does offend others... which is why I support segregating the adult games out, to prevent them from offending people, as well as an additional stopgap to try and keep the kiddies from stumbling across them "accidentally*". Same goes for P:W.

As for including "[Adult]" in the title... that's potentially one way to avoid people clicking on it while expecting something else. Clicking on an ad with the [Adult] tag or clicking on a random game with the little A means you realize it IS an Adult game, and that could mean anything from... (see list above, or more complete list somewhere in the FAQ).

The only other thing I can think of in this regard is revamping the tags so that [Mature] covers anything PG-13 to R, and [Adult] covers NC-17 and up. (Sorry to use the US terms, but basically, it would mean making [Adult] strictly for games which include on-screen erotica or extreme references along those lines. I know that the site's policy on sex and RP is such that, even with the redefined tags, it wouldn't make it acceptable for people to create Wonder Tentacle Super Happy Fun Time (to borrow colloquial wording and the theme already being kicked around) -- as a purely sexual story -- but it would remove the stigma from Adult games which simply use the tag to avoid getting axed for being too violent / too extreme / too much language.

*In this day and age, if the kids can type well enough to do an RP, they're probably interested in the shadier side of the Adult flag anyways. Just saying.
This message was last edited by the user at 13:30, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

I do not want to see 'Adult' hidden as the default.

Once there is an option (if jase goes that way) to hide adult games IF you want to do so, there is no need for the word 'Adult' in the title at all.

I believe jase working now to make a way for all games with the little green A on them to have a distinction in the game ads, so that people who don't want to see the ads can have the easy option not to open the ad up -- but I may be wrong about that.

But I don't want adult games to be hidden away as the default because a few people are uncomfortable with the concept.  If you choose to hide it away, more power to you.

By the same token, Anime games offend my sensibilities greatly. _{I'm sure there are some really quality ones out there, but ... well, actually I'm not}   Even though they generally make me cringe when it's necessary to read them, I don't think my dislike of knowing the genre is on the site could potentially cause people who like playing in them not to know that they're on the site because there were a 'display Anime on/off' switch set to 'off' as the default.

I'd like to be able to deactivate those glorified bad quality cartoons as well :)

I would like to be able to see games which may have violence, but I don't want any smudge. It would be good if "adult" could be split in two categories, violence and the porn stuff (to me anything that holds descriptions of actual sexual acts other than kissing is porn).

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was off-topic, at 19:44, Mon 05 Apr 2010.

While the anime (or whatever style other than adult) might cause you concern Adult games have a such a strong moral-immorality association that most countries have laws limiting them. Its because of those legal concerns that the moderators probe the RJT for age statements etc. The adult games will be under the subscription requirement as well. It is the related adult content GPIA, WGM, WPL* that ought to be under showing limitations.


*what is the short for for Wanted Players?

While anime or other categories might be a concern to some they certainly do not compare to the morality and legality of the adult games.

Dividing adult into adult for violence/sexuality/both might not be a bad idea, although I suppose introduces both technical (extra flags) and administrative/policy issues (policy changes, moderation changes, etc.)

As talked about, part of the reason being the legality and moral issues, I have heard described that different countries have different expectations.  What violence you might see in an American show for instance, might never be allowed to be shown in one country, while that same country might show a show with explicit sexual scenes that would only be allowed to be seen in the US at off hours.

Given the switchover doesn't seem eminent, I don't know how practical it would be, but it might at least be worth considering.  [if the costs technical/administrative] would be worth the benefits [ease of tighter filtering, and potentially better meeting some contries needs]

Is it true that some countries might have a bigger problem with someone accessing one of the games with descriptive violence, that for instance an adult may want to say, yes in my subscription I would like access to Adult Sexual content, but not Violent content as it may not be legal even for me?   [or vice-verse]

I'm not about to hide away adult games because of some misconception that they're run by "naughty people".  I will concede that a lot of our policy breaches come from adult games, but my focus is on the good RPoL citizen, and RPoLians that fall into both the good citizen and adult gamer categories are a valued and welcomed part of the site.

I don't think we need to segment adult games off more than we already have, the division we've currently got is what I believe was our moral and legal obligation to do.  I think what we've currently got (and propose to eventually do) strike a good balance and I'm comfortable with it, going any further would only because I want to, and I do not want to create a divide within the players on the site.

Everyone has the right to be offended by fairly innocuous words.  Shannara can be offended by "Akira" all she wants, just as the rest of us can think she's being a bit oversensitive about it all.  I'm not about to hide away adverts because the imagination of some can drum up all kinds of negative connotations.

I'm happy with the change that I've already implement on beta (the ability to deselect adult, mature and sole ownership when searching adverts (all three are on by default)) as well as the new one that this thread prompted me to do, which is to include the M/A/P indicators next to the topic when listing the threads (whether done by a search or not).

That gives people plenty of opportunity to avoid the things they do not want to see.  If you don't want to see anime then fine, don't search for it, or if you're listing threads then don't open the one with "Anime" listed under genre.  Similarly if you want to avoid an adult game then deselect "adult" when searching, or avoid those games that have "A" next to their topic.

(I realise that not selecting "anime" is different to deselecting "adult", but they are evenly handled within their relative fields.  Anime must be selected just like every other genre, just like adult must be deselected just like every other game flag.)

The (proposed and implemented) changes to the handling of adult games on RPoL have never been about discrimination, despite what many think.  I'm not about to start now.

Strange how these topics always end up being about adult games...

Clarification question:

Please indicate if this is correct or in error:

If I subscribe but turn down Adult access and I do a (default?) search it will still come up with Adult games. One would still go into the game seeing the public and group 0 threds. It is when selecting RTJ that the code will check that adult access is not permitted.

Incorrect.

Subscribers who do not have access to adult material will not be able to search for or enter an adult game.

Non-subscribers will be able to search for adult games and enter the game, but not view any of the threads.

I for one, love the Adult tag, and place it on all my games. Mainly for the fact I have gore, blood and seduction. But in my year and a half long game I ran, 0 people had sex. I would also like a tag for Blood Gore exreame but not sex.

On a side note... I LOVE THIS SITE.

A quick clarification; once the subscription system goes into place, does that mean that people who are currently in adult games at that time, but who do not subscribe, will be removed automatically from the adult games they are in, or be required to leave them?

I ask only as while I do intend to subscribe, I may have players who do not, and it would be good to know whether I am going to have to choose between lowering my content rating or losing players.

Been wondering about this for awhile, and this topic seems the proper place to ask ^_^

"Non-subscribers will be able to search for adult games and enter the game, but not view any of the threads."

I take that to mean that no one will be kicked from any game.

There will be a transition stage where you can figure out what you're going to do, I think that's only common sense.

Players won't be removed so they will still be remain in the game but, as Lwaxy quoted, they won't be able to view the threads.  You can then reallocate their characters as you see fit.

I would like to suggest that noone start changing game classifications / leaving games based on subscriptions until we have a firm date as to when that's going to be, and also know how long the transition period will be -- along with price of subscriptions.

There's absolutely no need of generating the many questions that do not have answers as of yet.  Once we have them, and thus a timeline, it will be posted on the Announcements board.

Jase's transition stage will certainly allow everyone enough time to make an informed decision rather than a knee-jerk decision based on suppositions and opinions.

Thank you much for the prompt response. It was helpful, and is appreciated ^_^