For the longest time I've wanted to play a very below average witch (read sorceress). What do I mean way below average? So weak that her punches heal, so feeble that she never gains more hit points (or even losses them at level up), so clumsy that she could miss the broad side of a barn (ok, I could compromise with this one, if only to aid survival), so dumb that she can barely speak, so shy that her spells are ridiculously easy to resist (Unless we are in 3.5/Pf, in which case it would have to be barely enough charisma to still get to cast some spells, but if 5e, then it could be dumped too) and just having some degree of wisdom (if only so she isn't suicidal)

My inspiration is basically Elan from the order of the stick, more like the Elan in the early strips, a very useless adventurer that still wants to go and do good and somehow finds a way to still contribute. Also because I have problems identifying with a character that is too well-rounded and essentially larger than life I would like to try to play with a character that isn't really special in that way.

There is no official way in the rules to get scores this low. So if any DM out there has a spot for me and decides to humor me in this, it would be quite nice.

In short I'm thinking of: Str 3, Dex 12, Con 4-5, Int 3, Wis 12-14, Cha 12 in 3.5, Str 3, Dex 12, Con 2-3, Int 3, Wis 12-14, Cha 12 in PF, or Str 1, Dex 14, Con 1, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7 in 5e. (The differences are mostly because in 3.x you need Int 3 to have a class at all and some main cast stat to cast spells at all. More Dex in 5e because monsters hit harder there and I want hard mode, not impossible mode)

So does anybody out there think there's room for this character to exist?

Edit: Oh and small party please.
This message was last edited by the user at 02:43, Thu 30 May 2019.

No offense, but I think your character would die a swift and brutal death in any of the systems you are referring to. That is of course, unless the DM was very generous, fudged rolls, or simply did not put you in any combat situations. I think your idea is more suited for free-form where numbers don't have any persuasion upon your character's survival.

In reply to orynnfireheart (msg # 2):

Not at all, the EL would just need to be well below what a character of her level could handle. A fight with a dog, not riding dog, or hawk, not eagle would be VERY doable. XP would need to be generous, or she should expect to never level.

At mid level, fights with multiple orcs or kobolds would be fine. After all, the GM should assume she isn't going to engage into a normal campaign.

So there's PLENTY of lower level/CR creatures that will challenge her but not be outright automatically lethal.

I think that's the point...

Have you considered a DCC funnel? All of the characters there are basically ordinary folk fighting things much stronger than themselves

In reply to LunarKitty (msg # 1):

a dex so low she can throw herself at the ground... and miss.  Thus inventing a new way to fly?  Dex 12 nope too high
This message was last edited by the user at 14:57, Sat 16 June 2018.

In reply to Rod of Ruin (msg # 4):

DCC funnels go too far in the other direction. The point of having a vulnerable character is to have an easier time empathizing with her. And having her as explicitly disposable goes counter it. (And I would probably end up having to choose a more powerful character that did survive, and that is still having to roll when I want a more or less specific array,also she would be of a random occupation with no magic. And even if she survived the meat grinder, DCC is too old school with magic to the point she wouldn't be a witch as I envision. She would be at best a wizard with a spellbook and stuff, which is the opposite of what I want. -I explicitly said Witch, think of sorcerer-)

In reply to MeRK (msg # 5):
If the DM running this threw a few epic armbands of armor at me I could certainly go as low as 1.

How committed are you to the D&D family of games?  I could see doing something like this with Warhammer, and it would be very much within the level that game is designed for.  Plus if you choose Hedge Wizard as your starting career you would have significant social penalties too!  (assuming you consider "you will be executed if your magical abilities are discovered" to be an adequate social penalty)

EDIT: To be clear, yes I am offering to set up a game if you would be interested in doing it this way.
This message was last edited by the user at 20:48, Mon 18 June 2018.

Ok, sadly that game died. Soo, bump?

What if keeping her alive is the goal of the party?
STR 3 is too low to make anyone comfortable, though.

I am not offering to DM, but throwing ideas. Particularly if the game is set in Eberron and Lunarkitty's character is found to have a long lost dragonmark.

TBH, If you want to play a fun character.  The 2nd ed Wild Mage has a chart for surges and each spell has to be rolled to see if it was cast at a lower caster level, a surge, or a higher caster level.

Everything is so random and the surge chart can be equally bad and beneficial to the caster and her party.

A character with a STR 1-4 could barely carey a waterskin much less lift her body to a standing position.  A CON 3 would mean she's bed ridden.  You'd never lose hitpoints because the book even says minimum 1.  An INT 3 wouldn't allow you to make any useful ideas how to resolve an issue, she'd just be standing there and the party would have to pull her around.  Which would bruise her because she's so sickly.  A 12 Charisma maybe the group felt sorry for her, because she can't communicate coherantly.  She wouldn't even know how to go to a private area to relieve herself.

I doubt any party would go around cleaning up after someone they were travelling with. INT is the worst thing to place at such a low score.  Followed by CON because without those two the party would see no reason to keep her around.  If they walked off and left her, she couldn't even figure out to follow them.

That is if your playing those stats the way they are described.  How much fun would that be? Also, a good DM would randomly set off her spells because she wouldn't know how to control them.

I could see this as a quest though, an extended quest where they have to travel and protect her. She gets separated and has to deal with her own battles, like facing down a rabid dog, or something that would be hard for a regular person compared to heroes.