Ok, so I joined RPoL a couple months ago and, I gotta say, I'm getting discouraged.  I've joined a lot of games and tried to run my own.  Most of them died, including my game.  People seem to be all gung-ho at first and then two weeks later after the game has really started people just disappear.

I've really stuck it out with two games, but even they have lost a lot of activity.  The one, when I started, had 10 players (it's sandbox) and then started to die.  They did a role call to see who was left and four responded (including me).

I don't know if I'm just complaining or if someone out there can offer me some helpful advice.  I'm about to try to start up another game, but I'm anticipating failure.

In reply to Acanthus82 (msg # 1):

Well i know one way to let a game die is to not establish a posting rate. My game has a strict posting rate that i don't let people join who can't meet. I don't have many players but the ones i do are keeping my game strong.

Also longevity on Rpol is a bit of a problem. I'm not too sure how you can keep them going as a player other than maintain interest. Though i noticed when i ask for a game on Wanted-GMs they can last longer because i'm very interested in the games i request.

Unfortunately I think it's a sign of our times. Firstly, people have hectic lifestyles, with a lot of uncertainties at work that spill over into uncertainties at home, and RPGs tend to come at the bottom of everyone's list of priorities. RL always comes first.

Secondly, people are used to instant gratification these days; few people have any desire to make anything work by putting effort in, the sheep just move to 'greener grass'.

However, it is possible to get good games going, you just need a lot of perseverance. If you give up, too, you'll never get the game you want.

Design your games so that it's relatively easy for PCs to leave and be replaced without scuppering the game. A wilderness game, where wandering adventurers can join the party or wander off into the sunset at will is better than a dungeon crawl where 'What happened to Fred the Fighter?' and 'Where did Willy the Wandering Wizard spring from?' are harder questions to answer.

That way you can keep the wheat and cycle through the chaff, while your game goes on.

Having said that, Sandboxes have a greater requirement for player input than 'three-act-plays' and you need a better class of player. It'll take time to find them.

Keep trying games (or cycling through PCs in a rolling game) until you get a core of like-minded players. Whoever stayed to the end of your last game might like to start your new game. After a while, you may build up a 'little black book' of players you can call on, who are reliable, competent and fun, and who like your style.

Likewise, if you yourself go the extra mile as a player, you have more chance of being included in someone else's little black book, and over time you may find yourself being invited to a better class of game.

Unfortunately, there's no quick fix. See how you go on by next Easter...

You are entirely too pessimistic.

Much of picking/committing to a game, whether as a player or as GM, is within your control.

i) If you have a core of players that you know, no problem! A core group will stick it out when things get tough no matter what the Rules System. Unfortunately, in PbP, it can be difficult to gather a faithful group.

ii) Don't pick games for which players won't purchase the Rules, are difficult to teach or to learn, are not supported by RPoL, require a lot of RL background, or will take a lot of RL time to play (for any reason). You are asking for failure. Research the game.

iii) Reaearch the GM. If he is running 8 games concurrently, has 25 deleted and/or inactive, beware.

iv) If the GM doesn't mention conditions for RTJ, like samples of writing, or picking and choosing the best applicants, take care. (The game fills up in 3 hours of real time, most of those fast players will surely drop out and apply for their next 15 games almost as quickly. It's the grass-is-greener syndrome).

v) Keep talking/corresponding with the GM and the other players regularly. Isolation in RPoL is everyone's enemy.

vi) Don't be boring or predictable. Be clever with your characters (and NPCs).

I'm in several games with over 20,000 posts...

I think this is very important.

You lose the folks that want a fast paced game because others are too slow.

You lose possibly a real good player because others keep pushing the action forward and they feel left behind.

Real life stuff does come up and you probably don't want to just kick people out because of one lapse in posting but if people repeatedly are absent you can't let them hold up the whole group.

How you deal with those that don't post is important.

You can state ahead of time that you will post for characters when their player has not been on for X amount of time.  Some people feel the character is theirs and get offended by the GM running their character but when a player joins and commits to posting at a certain rate they agree to this.  In reality the game belongs to the GM and the GM can post for a character if their player is not checking in and can take over a character to keep things going, perhaps the character becomes an important NPC or you just run them long enough to write them out of the story.

Sandbox.    This can be problematic too.  Perhaps one player thinking the game will have a lot of combat while another wants to spend lots of time doing something else.  People eagerly joining and creating characters only to have the game not go in the direction they had imagined.

Letting the players/characters make more choices and decide what their characters do instead of having a pre written straight line adventure that needs to be followed step by step is one thing.  But having no direction or idea what the game will be about is probably a poor startup. I think one should at least give some indication what the larger picture is, even in a sandbox.  Your trying to clear out a dungeon, your trying to non militarily overthrow a ruler - going around gathering co conspirators and making the puppet leader you want to take over look good, your trying to rescue someone - lots of talking with people, investigating, and following clues...

Even in a sandbox the GM still needs to help give choices, describe settings, run NPCs.  Give that push and nudge any time things slow down.  Try to get characters that are not posting as much involved, even if it is involved in their own separate interest, when they are getting bored or don't enjoy the direction others are taking the game.

Time to take my own advice and post something in my game.
This message was last edited by the user at 17:13, Sun 20 Apr 2014.

Ditto what everyone else before me has said...

From a GM perspective - My game has been going strong for a year now.  The only reason why is that I am fairly heartless about trimming my player base when those players can not meet our posting rate requirements or if they vanish for XX days.  I normally auto-pilot missing players for a little bit of time before I rotate them out.

I dislike loosing players but it needs to happen for the survival of the game.

That is what I found out, too. "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few"...in this case at least.

AS GM, I keep my game going for the players that stay with it, NPCing and eliminating those that fall by the wayside. My commitment is to get whoever keeps posting to a finale, even if that means the game doesn't go where I thought it would.

I've only shut down one game out of the seven I've started before completion.

The best games I run/ran were Little Black Books games. Not all of them had the best longevity for various reasons and oddly he games for guys I knew in my university society died out fast, but the LBBs had the best quality and best energy.

If you develop a particular relationship with a player either in your own game or someone elses, invite them to games you set up or point out any games you've joined you think they might enjoy.

Knowing that one other person in the game is a decent player who you like playing with helps you hold on that little bit longer when the momentum starts to go.


Of course building up your LBB can be a long road littered with dead games, and sometimes the people on that list with disappear into the dread land of RL never to return. This is where writing samples or character backgrounds in RTJs help, and if you know someone has followed into your game from a game you play in you can try asking that GM if SoAndSo is an ok guy.


Sandboxes are tricky. It needs pro-active players and some GMs make the mistake of thinking a sandbox games means they don't have to run the environment (or underestimate how much work is needed to run the environment). Again, you need to meet up with or be the player who Has A Plan to help that game along.

In reply to Tileira (msg # 9):

I like to invite friends first, so I know how that goes. especially since I have not ran a campaign in years.

The last two or three games I've joined have been games I was invited to join...because the GM had been reading (if not fully participating) in discussions on the Community Chat forum and liked what I had to say (or at least how I said it).  I'm very much a believer in the importance of group chemistry for games...when I was in college, the same group of friends played about six different role-playing games, with wildly different systems and different people running the games, but we all had a great time.

I have, since then, tried a few times to get into games that were being run by one or another of those friends, because I enjoyed the way they ran their game...but with all the new players in those games, the 'spark' that made the earlier games so much fun just never happened.

So, don't be afraid to do a little recruiting (don't spam everyone with an invitation to your game...it's been done and the Powers That Be here frown upon such activities with an intensity that is not to be trifled with...)--keep track of players whose style you enjoy.  Watch for other RPOL users who seem to jive well with your personality.  Don't take it personally if they don't accept the invitation...I've had to turn down game invitations for the simple fact that I've got a full docket of games for the amount of time I have available to participate, and that's not uncommon...

But if you can build up a core of three or four good, active, devoted players, your games can weather the comings and goings of others long enough to sort out a solid group.

I'm a bit late to this thread, but what you're experiencing is normal.

There's the idiom of "having eyes bigger than your stomach" which applies to many players and GMs. It's fun and exciting to apply for new games. There's a wealth of possibility, the fun of designing a character. It's always appealing, even when you know with certainty you can't join or run a given game because you have no time.

None of this is pointed at you specifically, I think all of us have this and am writing it as a way of explaining.

It's never 100% a thrill ride. To achieve longevity, the participants have to legitimately have the time available to participate (not just wishfully-think they have the time), have the maturity to discuss concerns about when things aren't going as expected, be able to make compromises along the way, and push themselves through periods of "writer's block." They should also know when to gracefully bow out instead of disappearing into a pool of denial.

The start of an interesting new game is flush with creative energy, but it's hard to say how you'll feel about the game down the line without real insight into yourself and experience to know what you're getting into with a game.

If you're new to RPOL, even moreso if you're new to play by post, you won't know what you're getting into at first, and your expectations will be betrayed.


But you've already found the major piece: Everyone's all eager and two weeks later is the real test. I recommend you join games with the full understanding that it will be enjoyable for a couple of weeks, with no guarantee of beyond that.

There are lots of signs to look for when considering a game to join, a game you want to run, and which players to accept and which to turn down.

When looking to join a game, in general you should see the GM's track record of games just as azzuri said. If they don't have an apparent track record, ask them about it. Sometimes a game will fill up while you're talking, but you can intuit some information about the GM for the future that way, and fairly easily mention your interest to be a replacement player when it becomes necessary, since you've spoken a bit with them.

Players have track records too, it's just not displayed easily. Talk to them about other games they are or have been in and what they like about it.

Make sure your RTJ process represents what you *really* look for in a player, not what you think you *should* look for in a player. Don't call for a 5 paragraph backstory when you will not incorporate much of that into your game, and won't remember to work in ties with the player.

If what you really care about is their grammar and spelling, a modest RTJ and a couple of back and forth posts will show that better than asking for a gripping novella. If what you really want is an adaptable easygoing player, don't ask them for a huge amount of advance work or establishing detailed character traits and backstories (stick with relatively loose details that can be cemented later).

If what you really want is to not have any player that routinely posts only one or two sentences in a game post, say that straight out. If what you really want is a player with a track record, ask them to link you to other games they're in, and have them point out which character is theirs so you can see for yourself.

Consider the writing style and grammar of the GM/player to see if they are a good match for what you're looking for. Hurried posting can often be read between the lines.

Consider how much thought and effort seems to go into an enterprise (within reason). If a game in the 'Game Proposals' forum moves from "Hey I have an idea, anyone interested?" to "Ok, game created!" in a matter or hours, odds are it was not extensively planned out and is a rush of emotion.

If a game page has very little written about how the game is going to be and what is expected, you can assume the GM has about the same amount of thought on the subject.
This message was last edited by the user at 03:01, Sat 03 May 2014.