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Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics.

Posted by Varsovian
Varsovian
member, 1304 posts
Thu 24 Nov 2016
at 22:13
  • msg #1

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

A quick question from PF newbie: what exactly is psionics in the PF / DnD context? How does it work? Is it something similar to magic, with spells etc., or something else?
T.S.
member, 196 posts
I stand in noone's shadow
except my own...
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 00:55
  • msg #2

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

In DnD, Psionics is as much like spellcasting as the GM wants it to be. Some GM's will say that they operate independently so that you can't counterspell or dispell psionics with arcane. Others will say it works but with a higher difficulty of success. Others will put psionics, arcane, and divine abilities as essentially the same.

Mechanically, though, psionics produces many of the same effects as many arcane spells.

The main difference is this: Arcane/divine spells have specific spell slots. A 5th level Wizard will only be able to cast a certain number of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells all in predetermined amounts. Psionic characters, however, have a pool of points they start with each day. Each power they use depletes this pool. Higher level powers use more points. With two different psions of the same level, one could spend the whole day using 1st level powers while the other spends they day using 3rd level powers and they could both use all their available power points. The one using 3rd level powers will have stronger effects though not as many uses as the one using only 1st level.
willvr
member, 984 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 01:02
  • msg #3

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Unless you go older editions.
NowhereMan
member, 104 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 09:36
  • msg #4

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

In Pathfinder, psionics are largely just another school of magic, alongside arcane and divine magic, and is mechanically treated as such.
Varsovian
member, 1305 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 10:09
  • msg #5

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

I see. And which PF book covers psionics? It's not in the core rulebook...
NowhereMan
member, 105 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 12:37
  • msg #6

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Occult Adventures. Official psionics are relatively new to Pathfinder.
meschlum
member, 170 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 16:15
  • msg #7

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Correction: Psychic magic is in Occult Adventures. It's mechanically like arcane / divine spellcasting, with different themes to the spells and somewhat different rules for casting and associated classes. The main concept behind Psychic magic is interacting with spirits, dreams, hypnotism, and the like.

Psionic powers have existed in D&D since first edition, and are meant to represent characters with mental powers - telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, and so on. They are not an official Paizo product, but have been translated from 3.5 to Pathfinder in "Psionics Unleashed", by Dreamscarred Press. Mechanically, psionics works by having relatively few powers and a pool of energy you can spend on them. The more energy you dedicate to a power, the more effective or versatile it (usually) is - but you can run out.
Varsovian
member, 1306 posts
Fri 25 Nov 2016
at 23:11
  • msg #8

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

I see. Thanks!

A more general question: do you guys think that psionics fit with the fantasy genre? Characters with telekinesis, telepathy etc. feel a bit like something out of sci-fi. On the other hand, there are fantasy monsters with similar powers...

And even more general question: speaking of Occult Adventures and Horror Adventures - have you guys run occult / horror game in Pathfinder? I can well imagine fantasy with such themes, but I can't help thinking of Pathfinder as comic-booky, colourful fantasy game. I blame this game's art style...
willvr
member, 985 posts
Sat 26 Nov 2016
at 01:24
  • msg #9

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Psionics works fine in fantasy. Now getting them to look different from a wizard who takes mind control powers and the like can be tricky; but that's why I like the way power points works; though sorcerers dilutes it a bit as well.

Where they really excel though, is worlds where it's a bit tricky to see if it's really fantasy or sci-fi - worlds like, for example, Pern, some of Julian May's works for example.
meschlum
member, 171 posts
Sat 26 Nov 2016
at 07:20
  • msg #10

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

It depends on the fantasy you're looking at! Originally, psionics were introduced to AD&D because they could fit - the sci-fi / fantasy divide wasn't too strongly defined in the literature, and plenty of examples exist. As to whether they fit in your setting, that's a different matter...

For what it's worth, D&D 3.5 had psionics be strongly crystal themed. So if your fantasy is compatible with people meditating on rocks and gaining the ability to change the world and minds of others that way, you're set.


I agree that occult and horror themes would be challenging in Pathfinder, due to divination magic, knowledge of monsters (and how they can be killed), and the way knowledge skills work (mysterious spirits can be fully known with the proper skills).

With players who want to go along with the themes, it's possible - but not necessarily easy.
NowhereMan
member, 106 posts
Sat 26 Nov 2016
at 08:06
  • msg #11

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Yeah, it totally depends on what you define as "fantasy".

D&D had Spelljammer, which was fantasy space opera, and Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, which is a dungeon crawl through a flying saucer complete with alien monsters and robots.

Pathfinder has the Iron Gods adventure path, and the entirety of Numeria, not to mention the content in the Distant Worlds supplement.

Heck, I'm getting ready to run a game set on a Mars colony.
Varsovian
member, 1307 posts
Sat 26 Nov 2016
at 19:52
  • msg #12

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Distant Worlds? I haven't seen that book on Paizo's page...

*peeks again and discovers the Campaign Setting section*

Aaaargh! I didn't know all these books existed... And so many of them look useful! But I have no money for them!!!

*cries*
Varsovian
member, 1308 posts
Sun 27 Nov 2016
at 21:03
  • msg #13

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Okay, so here's a question: do psychic magic (as defined in Occult Adventures) and psionics (as presented in Dreamscarred Press' books) overlap? Or are they completely separate things (conceptually, not mechanically)?

Also, could you guys tell me what kind of abilities both of them confer?
willvr
member, 987 posts
Sun 27 Nov 2016
at 23:26
  • msg #14

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

Well, I haven't read either book in question, but conceptually?

Psychic magic is really just magic. It's kinda like asking does divine magic and being granted powers from a god overlap.
meschlum
member, 172 posts
Mon 28 Nov 2016
at 04:55
  • msg #15

Quick question: Pathfinder / DnD psionics

There is a certain amount of overlap due to limited concept space: you use your powers to read minds and move things. Are you a wizard, casting Mage hand and Detect Thoughts? Are you a psion, using your telepathy and telekinesis? Are you a psychic, invoking spirits to tell you what others think and shake tables?

Conceptually, the two are meant to be somewhat different, possibly best illustrated by the power's 'source' - though it's not a perfect fit in either case.

Psionic power comes from yourself, developing the mental powers you possess and using them on the world and others.

Psychic power comes from the past, learning to contact and manipulate the spirits and imprints of ancient times.

Divine power comes from the gods, channeling their will and making it manifest in the mortal realm.

Arcane power comes from the universe, unraveling its secrets and wielding them to shape your environment.


Another source of conceptual difference is that psionics rely a lot on crystals imbued with power, where psychic magic is more based on emotions than shiny stones.


The abilities you get from either are fairly diverse, and can be fine tuned to get a wide range of builds - some things are easier than others, but you still have a lot of options either way. I'm not aware of any official way to advance both at the moment (though one could probably work one out), so that means they are distinct, I suppose.
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