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18:17, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Posted by RedTeamPyro
Lord_Johnny
member, 156 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 00:52
  • msg #34

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Nope, looking in the Races of Faerun, where it talks about using Drow as PC race possibilities.
RedTeamPyro
member, 139 posts
So edgy he cant cut paper
Idon'tknowwhattoputhere
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 01:24
  • msg #35

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

So uh... I get that Drow are PC race possibilities, but are Yuan-Ti? Things derailed and i'm confused now.
Lord_Johnny
member, 157 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 01:27
  • msg #36

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Anything could be a playable race. That's why there is the template for how to convert them to playable races.

Additionally, Pathfinder has several Naga races.
RedTeamPyro
member, 140 posts
So edgy he cant cut paper
Idon'tknowwhattoputhere
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 02:04
  • msg #37

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

*Sigh* I'm aware, however as stated earlier, the Naga i'm looking for is NOT a snake with a human head pasted on to it.
Lord_Johnny
member, 158 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 03:00
  • msg #38

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Ahh, I must have misunderstood that. My apologies.

In that xase, yes, just look at the die used to create a monster's HP, and that constitutes the number of RHD, with 1 Die per level. That gives you the base level for a PC character.
willvr
member, 968 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 03:25
  • msg #39

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 32):

Drow do not have racial HD. In fact, Races of Faerun specifies that a Drow of any class is equivalent to a third level character, purely due to an LA of +2. No racial HD.
Flint_A
member, 557 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2016
at 07:27
  • msg #40

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

I was going to say maybe Forgotten Realms has different Drows (for example, Dragonlance has Minotaurs that are different from the Monster Manual) but then willvr responded. (Incidentally, is this it? http://alcyius.com/dndtools/ra.../drow--96/index.html Because that, like the Monster Manual, says +2 LA and no racial HD.)

Pyro: You can play ANYTHING that has at least 3 Int and at least 1 Wis&Cha. (You could play something with 1-2 Int but your options would be severely limited.) Here's the problem. If the 3.5 stats of the race give you an LA, whether it's +X or +0, it's ready to play. You don't need to do anything else. If it doesn't list stat modifiers, subtract 10.5 from every stat and round towards 0. (So 12 becomes +2, 13 becomes +2, 8 becomes -2, 9 becomes -1.) Other than that, look at the stat block and remove everything that comes from class levels or equipment. The rest is what you get.

But if the race lists LA "-", this DOESN'T MEAN an LA of +0. It means there is no ruling and it requires GM fiat. The GM decides on an LA based on what feels right, then you can play it. (Again follow the previous paragraph.)
This message was last edited by the user at 07:29, Wed 07 Sept 2016.
Lord_Johnny
member, 159 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 00:01
  • msg #41

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

In reply to willvr (msg # 39):

It specifically mentions that they have hit dice, and these are called RHD. I'd like to invite you to go reread the books.
Flint_A
member, 559 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 01:13
  • msg #42

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

In reply to Lord_Johnny (msg # 41):

I dug up Races of Faerun. It says +2 LA, like every other source, then it tells you to refer to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting entry for racial stats. (This is all pg. 34.)

I see no other stats mentioned for drow in this book. Where exactly are you pulling this information from? Can you copy and paste the paragraph, or at least give us a page number?

Edit: In fact, yes, as willvr mentioned, page 6 pretty unambiguously explains that drow have +2 LA and are therefore the equivalent of a character two classes higher, but have no racial HD just like most other humanoids.)
This message was last edited by the user at 01:16, Thu 08 Sept 2016.
ricosuave
member, 128 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 02:04
  • msg #43

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Drow do have racial hit die.

Its just that if you only have 1 racial hit die, that single hit die is replaced by one's first class level.

SO technically Lord_Jhonny is correct. Drow have 1 RHD, its just when they take a level in some class POW they lose that lone racial hit die.
RedTeamPyro
member, 142 posts
So edgy he cant cut paper
Idon'tknowwhattoputhere
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 02:47
  • msg #44

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

While we're here, I have another question in regards to races...

Gargoyles. Do they exist and are they playable?
NowhereMan
member, 81 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 03:33
  • msg #45

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Like the other options mentioned in this thread, yes and no.

As of 3.X, they have 4 racial HD and a +5 LA, meaning that they can be played at 9th level and up.
willvr
member, 969 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 05:03
  • msg #46

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

In reply to ricosuave (msg # 43):

Actually, no they don't. If you read the descriptions carefully, it states that they are assumed to be a Warrior; so they have 1d8. Like humans, and dwarves.
Flint_A
member, 560 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2016
at 08:23
  • msg #47

No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Every race has at least 1 RHD, in theory. But humanoids with 1 RHD lose that when they take class levels. The only way they would have that RHD would be if they somehow did not take any class levels. (Which is technically possible, especially for an NPC.) This doesn't make him right, because he's been insisting they have 3 RHD.

Pyro, Gargoyles are in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gargoyle.htm

What little bonuses they give absolutely aren't worth 4 RHD and +5 LA though. I mean, +5 LA? Damn. That's the most preposterous nerf I've seen since vampires. I get that they're tough and they fly, but it's unplayable.

I think there was a template that turns you to stone, though I can't remember where. Put that on a Kobold, then take the feat that gives them wings. (They get the "looking like a monster" for free.) Boom, you have a budget gargoyle.
ricosuave
member, 129 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 12:19
  • msg #48

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

willvr:
In reply to ricosuave (msg # 43):

Actually, no they don't. If you read the descriptions carefully, it states that they are assumed to be a Warrior; so they have 1d8. Like humans, and dwarves.



Again races with only 1 racial hit die lose the racial hit die upon their first acquisition of a class.

Its not about the monster description. its about the actual rules and how they operate in regards to creatures with only 1 hit die. Which are as follows.


Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four.
This message was last edited by the user at 12:21, Fri 09 Sept 2016.
willvr
member, 970 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 12:22
  • msg #49

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

In reply to ricosuave (msg # 48):

The -rules- actually state that the 'd8' HD that Drow have, is due to having a warrior class. The rules state that certain races -must- have a class, and that the description in the monster manual is due to an NPC class, usually warrior.
ricosuave
member, 130 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 12:48
  • msg #50

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

I understand that.

What I am trying, and failing it seems, to get across is that npc class hit die is not their 'natural' hit die. that warrior hit die replaces their singular racial hit die because as the rules state. creaures with 1 hit die or less (not sure exactly how you get less than 1 hit die though)replace that hit die with what ever class hit die they get upon taking the first level of a class. In the case for drow that would be the d8 for taking the first level of warrior.

Humanoids have a d8 as a racial hit die, you can look at examples where the particular race has more than 1 racial hit die such as a gnoll.

once more, things that only have 1 racial hit die, such as human, goblins, dwarves, drow, goblins, orcs, halfings, gnomes, half elves, elves, kobolds, half orcs, tieflings, aasimar, etc etc. All lose that racial hit die when thay become first level characters. Some may take bard as their first class level thereby losing their d8 single racial hit die and gaining a d6 class hit die, others maybe that big scary orc over there takes barbarian and gains a d12 instead.
willvr
member, 971 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 12:59
  • msg #51

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

They don't actually have a racial hit die. That's why they have to have a class of some description. Yes, humanoids with more than one HD have D8 HD. A monster with only one HD, has to have a class, because, effectively, without a class they don't have HD.

It's all pretty immaterial. It doesn't actually change anything. Whether you take it as it being a racial HD, or a class HD, it actually comes out to being exactly the same thing. The reason I steer clear of calling what they have as 'racial HD', because racial HD gets added to LA; and it's easier to explain why it doesn't happen if you can just say "that's not a racial HD. That's is an NPC warrior stat block there". If you look at an entry for playing Drow, or any other 1HD creature, there is no mention of racial HD.
C-h Freese
member, 250 posts
Survive - Love - Live
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 13:54
  • msg #52

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

ricosuave:
... (not sure exactly how you get less than 1 hit die though)...


I don't know this for sure, but that may be a memory of First Edition.  Where one dice was 1d8. and smaller [1hp,1-2hp,1d4,1d6] single racial dice were fractional dice.  They were still considered zero-level if they didn't have a "semi-" or "full-talent" heroic class level, whose dice would override their race dice anyway.
ricosuave
member, 131 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 15:19
  • msg #53

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

You are not reading me correctly or maybe not understanding.

there is no such thing as any single creature in the entire d20 rules  (3rd party included)that does not have at least 1 racial hit die.

and according to the very ruleset of d20. a creature with just 1 (and only 1) racial hit die automatically replaces said racial hit die with the specific hit die type of its class.
Drow, humans, orcs, and everything else in the rules with 1 hit die automatically switch out  that lone hit die gained from being humanoid to whatever class they have, most of the time its the warrior NPC class' d8.


I am at a loss to explain this in any more simplified of a way. SO this is my final attempt to explain how the rules work in regards to creatures with 1 hit die and the gaining of class levels.
willvr
member, 972 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 15:27
  • msg #54

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

Err, no.

If it is -automatically- replaced, no matter what, it's not a racial hit dice. It is not possible, as a human, elf or whatever, to not have a class. Racial hit dice are what you get purely for being your race. If you can't -not- have a class, you can't -not- have HD for your class, you're not replacing them. That's like saying you're replacing the hit dice you'd have for being a cleric, with your fighter HD because you've chosen to be a fighter.
swordchucks
member, 1302 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 15:45
  • msg #55

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

To quote the 3.5 SRD:

SRD:
Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are presented as 1st-level warriors, which means that they have average combat ability and poor saving throws.

Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.


Monsters as races has slightly different rules:

SRD:
Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.


So... from those two things, if you are a humanoid, you must have a class if you don't have 2 or more racial hit dice.  If you are not a humanoid, you may have a single racial hit die, but if you gain class levels, you replace your monster hit die with the class levels.

This is true for 3.5.  Pathfinder includes the first rule re humanoids, but I didn't spot the second in a quick scan.
C-h Freese
member, 251 posts
Survive - Love - Live
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 16:03
  • msg #56

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

   It is completely legal to create your own monster for your campaign.
   So if I create my own Monster, called Mundane "*" which is simply a template for humanoids and monsters that requires the "Mundane feat" to be choosen as its first act.  Requiring the creature to only advance by Racial or Clan dice unless it gains a position in an organization that includes a Semi-talent heroic-class as part of the position.

   Which allows me to return the first level Heroic class Character to fantasy Hero status in his world.

Just because the "new monster" is a traditional template from the past.  doesn't make it impossible.
   And it allowed me to start to bring an old campaign where Class levels was the definition of Fantastic Heroism.
swordchucks
member, 1303 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 16:57
  • msg #57

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

C-h Freese:
Which allows me to return the first level Heroic class Character to fantasy Hero status in his world.

That's kind of the point of the NPC classes vs. the PC classes.  A warrior is inferior to the fighter in pretty much every way (including not getting their full hit die in hit points at first level).  The average person is a commoner, the average guard is a warrior, the learned scholars are adepts, and the skilled craftsmen are experts.  The leaders tend to be aristocrats/nobles/whatever they call it.  All of these classes are flat-out inferior to the equivalent PC classes.

I don't really see why you'd need to invent something new to do that same task.
Flint_A
member, 561 posts
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 19:09
  • msg #58

Re: No snek race? (D&d, pathfinder, etc)

You could, theoretically, create a classless humanoid; but there would be absolutely no reason to do that. Notice how it says "Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class."(emphasis mine) The race in theory has 1 racial HD, but they exchange that with a class. As soon as they take the class, THEY NO LONGER HAVE RACIAL HD.

As for "racial HD gets added to LA", there is no such thing in 3.5, LA is LA. RHD gets added to ECL, but so do class levels.

Humanoid racial HD are pretty much worse than even NPC classes, and humanoids don't really have fancy special abilities or racial classes that stack with racial HD the way other types sometimes do. Therefore races like Gnolls who have and keep several humanoid RHD kind of get screwed.

Elves, including drow, have only 1 RHD, which they lose the moment they take a class. They then only have 1 HD from their class.
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