This message was deleted by the user at 00:27, Tue 30 Aug 2016.

For myself, I will deviate from the prescribed format if I think that my RTJ will flow better as a whole.  I see the RTJ process as a chance to showcase myself as well as my idea, so if my personal writing style or preferences are being retarded by the chosen format, I'm going to deviate in an attempt to improve my chance to show what I've got to offer to a game.  As a corollary, I accept that this means that I might be refused outright by a stickler, and I'm okay with that as I probably wouldn't have been a good fit anyway.

That said, it can be seriously frustrating if a player deviates and doesn't bother to include all the requested information from your original format.  In that scenario, I can certainly understand being frustrated by an RTJ that's purposely ignored your format.

So your answer is self righteousness? Since you walked around the question without answering it. Or, did you fail to read? Lol
Thank you for proving my point....
This message was last edited by the user at 21:25, Mon 29 Aug 2016.

I guess it really depends on how bad the deviation is. For example, if you're doing a 5e game, and you say the PHB is the only source material, I don't think it's unacceptable for someone to suggest the Elemental Evil Player's Companion since it's a free download. However, if they wanted to use something out of the Sword Coast Adventure's Guide, that's a different story since that is obviously something the DM either doesn't have or doesn't want to use.

So, I'm not sure how well I can comment here since I feel like I'm missing a lot of detail, so I'll give two thoughts.

If someone is suggesting something that comes from freely gained source material (free download, SRD site, etc), I don't think it's an unreasonable request. Sure, the rules have been stated, however, it wouldn't be going too far out of anyone's way to at least consider. More than likely, it's just something simple that they either really enjoy, or really want to try.

On the flip side, there are those special snowflakes, that even though you said Human only campaign, still try to submit their uber-homebrewed Half-Dragon Weretiger race and special class that they PROMISE is balanced (even though they wouldn't know balance if a set of scales *cough*-smacked them across the face).

At the end of the day, fun is fun. By that same token, respect a DM's rules.

Well, W0LF0S did answer your question exactly as you asked it. They just didn't answer your second two questions, which didn't sound like explicit "these are the only available options" additions to your original question, but rather "these are two ideas I think might be the answer, are they?"

So, uh. Have you considered that maybe the attitude presented to people is part of the problem? This is supposed to be a friendly place, after all, and going around being insulting to people trying to give you honest answers to what was supposed to be an honest question is sort of the anti-friendly. No idea if you're like that in your games, but you're certainly doing it in public.

Pretty sure W0LF0S answered your question-



-with an explanation of why.

Careful who you accuse of failing to read there . . .

I'd say deviation is annoying as a GM, but really if you can't determine if it's good deviation (they're taking license to show you what you need to be shown to understand their concept) or bad deviation, then it's likely bad deviation

I follow the RTJ as best as I am able. I say that as some RTJs are just very confusing or poorly written. Some times I wonder if a GM who produces such an item really knows what he/she wants. RTJ forms like those might give me pause to consider if I might want to rethink making a RTJ in the first place.

Do I feel that there is a need to deviate from the GMs original format ? Well the first thing that comes to mind is ... "It's NOT my game." If I want to play in this GMs game I need to follow HIS/HER rules !

That said, if I feel there is a need or a want on my part to add additional information that was not called for I might add it as an addendum. Or I might ask if I can expound upon his/her format and explain why the additional information should be added for his/her consideration.

Keep in mind that some RTJ say "DO NOT PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION" ... or "DO NOT SUBMIT FULL AND OR COMPLETE CHARACTER SHEETS FROM OTHER GAMES". Can you imagine that ? Some GMs actually want me to be creative and make a NEW character designed specifically for his/her game ? Blows your mind huh ?

Things like that can be pretty specific. To deliberately go against those things and wonder why you don't get selected for a game begs the question. <rant off>  :)

Okay ... I GM a bit like most here. And I find that about half the players follow directions pretty well. The portion of players that do go against my instruction in my RTJ form really do blow it out of the water with their creativeness. For a western I was running last year I got a character sheet that could have only been for a Sci-Fi game. This guy had a grav-sled on his sheet as well as a plasma rifle. He wanted to know if with a little editing, his character could be inserted into my game ?

Just a little editing huh ? Sure ...

No, it was not an answer, it was an explanation of why they deviate. No where does he address the question..  is it self-righteousness or lack of reading.

In reply to chas0105 (msg # 8):

It's an implied no. Not a firm one, but one that implies the options provided by you aren't complete enough to encompass it, and assumes you were not placing a binary choice.



I spent years studying philosophy and that's the first time I've seen someone use the term "begging the question" correctly. You just made my day, thank you
This message was last edited by the user at 21:40, Mon 29 Aug 2016.

Let's try this again.



That got answered completely and fully. Those other two questions were not addressed because they aren't really questions, they're "did you stop beating your wife?" type false dichotomies. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and the first question you asked isn't one of those two.

Yeah, I now believe the OP is trolling.

I'm confused as to why an explanation and an answer aren't the same thing.

Or are you trying to say that you meant that the only two possible answers are self-righteousness or lack of reading?  If that's what you meant, I disagree that those are the only two answers.

To circle back, I provided my own personal answer to your question based on my disagreement with your posited answers, because I don't presume to speak for the masses and don't believe that those two provided answers could be the only possible explanations for deviation from an RTJ format.  I figured that would be a more useful answer than some general guess as to the attitudes of the thousands of players on RPOL.

I'm so glad it wasn't just me who noticed that. :D

In reply to RosstoFalstaff (msg # 9):

Tips his hat to the man in the corner ... :)

*********************

As to the rest ... I think the prevailing opinion of the respondents is that the question was answered. However I believe that the OP is not happy with the answer he recieved. ... A troll by definition then ? Do we need a troll poll ?

In reply to Nintaku (msg # 13):

Both men !

What's the toll for winning the troll poll?

Like most of the voices here, I think the OP has answered his own question.

If his RTJs similarly offer limited and ill-fitting options, neither of which are deemed sufficient to give a complete reply by the person replying, it is small wonder people 'deviate' from the options offered.

Perhaps the solution is to be less specific rather than more so.

Personally, when I ask for a RTJ I specify nothing. I simply ask the visitor to chat with me about their character concept, and I take it from there. Works for me.

Ok let's be specific. Sample RTJ.
Include the FOLLOWING AND ONLY THE FOLLOWING IN YOUR RTJ.
1. Character name
2. Character Class(es)
3. Future PrC if any
4. Deity
5. A BRIEF 100 word or less physical description.
Now with that rtj, is it in your opinion? Self-righteousness? Or failure to read? That is a bigger factor in getting alot of rtj's that are everything but that?