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17:11, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Posted by MacWolf
Sittingbull
member, 242 posts
Don't you give me a link.
I use 24K dial-up.
Fri 9 Sep 2016
at 02:40
  • msg #32

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

In reply to TheSnowpanther (msg # 27):

My Dyslexia thanks you.
Lord_Johnny
member, 161 posts
Wed 21 Sep 2016
at 19:34
  • msg #33

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

I think I am now suffering from GM abandonment syndrome.

There was an epic level of awesome attached to a game concept. Build your city RPG fashion! "I'm all for that! Bring it on!" I said. Only to have been seemingly abandoned after about 8 posts into the game. Alas!!
Shadowysilence
member, 122 posts
Wed 21 Sep 2016
at 20:05
  • msg #34

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

I feel very bad reading this since throughout the years I've had chronic issues being a GM who causes abandonment syndrome...

Its not an excuse, but I suffer (less now with help from therapy, but more-so when I was dropping games a year back or earlier) from anxiety and depression. My depression would make me fall behind in life in general and lose focus, causing my RPoL work to really fall behind on top of real life stuff... and then my anxiety would kick in and make me worry how the players would react and fear posting or trying to start things up again.

I would worry so much about trying to post again, and being a good GM for them, that I became a horrible GM by just not posting altogether to avoid the anxiety feelings. This on top of wanting to do the best job possible and the depression making that hard fueled this further (feeling like its not worth doing what you can't do in the best way possible).

I went through that vicious cycle more than a few times and probably burned more than a few poor players through those events, for which I'm sorry.

If there are any old-time God Game players in the crowd who had me as an Ao, my apologies to you, since that is mostly where my responsibilities fell through and games died under my watch.

I hope to start things up again sometime in the future and finally break that cycle with a successfully completed game, but only after I know I've got a better grip on my problems.
jait
member, 351 posts
Wed 21 Sep 2016
at 23:39
  • msg #35

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Perfect is the enemy of good.

I'm a GM.  I do what I do because nobody else is doing it.   The players kind of need to accept that I will do what I can... and when I can't, I won't.  RPOL is an obligation I accept, but it's not as high a priority as many other things in my life.  Typically, I keep everyone in the loop, and expect the same in return.

Still, there comes a point where it feels like I'm spinning out more apologies than play.  That's usually when I kill my games.   I'd love to have a stable, no-crisis kind of life, but I don't.  So, the players have to accept it for what it is.
facemaker329
member, 6857 posts
Gaming for over 30
years, and counting!
Thu 22 Sep 2016
at 05:44
  • msg #36

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

I GM one game...and I'm slow and inconsistent, but I will stick with that game until such time as I'm the only one left in it, because the game owner made me a co-GM knowing that he was going to have some health issues and expected to be faced with having to endure an extended absence from RPOL.  And I promised him I wouldn't let the game die in his absence.

He's been gone long enough that the odds are REALLY good he's never coming back.  I've got an outline for how I want to play the game out, and bring it to a conclusion.  But my RL schedule is erratic at best, and I struggle to keep things going.

Luckily, I've got a couple of players in the game who are understanding of that (or have been thus far, at least).  They'll occasionally nudge me to keep things moving, which I appreciate, but nobody's gotten to the 'update the game or I'm leaving' stage (which I wouldn't appreciate).  I could easily see how someone would feel like I've abandoned the game, considering there are weeks when I'll post two or three updates, and then I won't post anything for a month or more.  But GMing doesn't come easy for me, it takes me a while to psyche myself up to write updates, and while I'm good if I've found a 'rhythm', I'm also easily thrown off that rhythm and then it's really hard for me to get back to it.

So, I'm pretty forgiving of my GMs.  I get it.  I'm going through it.  But because my players don't give up on me, I'm not giving up as a player on any of my GMs, until such time as the game gets deleted or the GM announces they're discontinuing the game.
EightBitEighties
member, 46 posts
A Blast From
The Past!
Thu 22 Sep 2016
at 07:18
  • msg #37

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

In reply to facemaker329 (msg # 36):

You're a real trooper there, friend. I can't imagine that there are too many folks out there willing to step up to the plate like that these days. I don't have a clue what kind of game it is you're in, but if you need some help, I'm in-between projects right now and got some free time, so if it's something I know the offer's there.
Inneliese
member, 3 posts
Thu 22 Sep 2016
at 10:51
  • msg #38

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

I don't really have experience here on RPOL yet, but having played on <other site> and <different other site> quite a bit, I certainly have a fair bit of experience with this. It doesn't matter if everyone knows each other IRL. I have a group of friends who have all been mutual friends for basically the past decade or so, and even games that consist only of us, with a dozen ways to contact each other outside of the game, including knocking on their damned door, we still have about a dozen abandoned campaigns. It happens even when all the players are good friends and nobody is dying and you ought to have the perfect setup.

Main culprits:
- Changed work schedule. This tends to affect virtual tabletop games more than pbp, but even pbp can be affected when suddenly there's someone who can literally only post once per day at most, because they're working the whole time everyone else in the group is available to post.
- Depression. Personally, I find this to be a feedback mechanism, where getting depressed leads to posting less, and posting less contributes to greater depression, until suddenly you've not posted in three months and the game is dead.
- But more than anything else, the real issue is that people are really quick to write off a game, and just 2-3 days of the GM being incommunicado (plenty of legit RL reasons for a short unannounced absence!) can be enough for players to give up on a game that's been going strong for months, and so when the GM returns, the party has already partially or even wholly disintegrated.

Anyway, that's my personal experience with things.
raygun_gothic
member, 41 posts
Thu 22 Sep 2016
at 15:11
  • msg #39

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

have a core player that has flaked out, and they have multiple charactors in different threads... so it's affecting multiple groups. they had been acting pretty douchy towards me and another new player, earlier... so i think they just cant handle the fact that there are new vibrant personalities in the group, and their charactors aren't the ones making the biggest splash, anymore
karuoun
member, 39 posts
I gm
Good for me and you
Fri 23 Sep 2016
at 06:28
  • msg #40

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

My philosophy has evolved during my time here,
Originally, I would post super length posts with tons of description and narrative and I would burn out and vanish for a while while I recovered.

Eventually, I ended up cancelling two of my games and leaving the site for about six months. I returned and made a commitment to posting, even with simple one liner if it keeps the games moving.

My players have never been happier and I'm excited every day to hop on and play along.

I run Games, and I feel they should be fun for everyone involved.  I still write huge narrative posts from time to time, not out of obligation, but because I'm enjoying myself and get excited enough to write them.

My players can expect a fun game out of me, even if sometimes the dice isn't in their favor, or they are on their fifteenth bard...lol... I'm here now.
This message was last edited by the user at 06:28, Fri 23 Sept 2016.
chupabob
member, 186 posts
Sat 24 Sep 2016
at 18:50
  • msg #41

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

My experiences here seem very different from those of other players, like Inneliese for example. I just looked at my RPOL homepage. I counted seven games there in which I am a player but the GMs have been AWOL for months. That doesn't count the three games which were deleted seemingly because the GMs lost interest. Besides those, there are the three games which I run (and get updated by me twice to four times per week), one game which I quit but where I continue to lurk, a few other games in which I lurk, and A Serious Waste of Time. By far the largest group on my homepage is the collection of games in which the GM has vanished.

What causes this? Well, one possibly is that people just die. We rarely know our fellow gamers outside of RPOL, and the games here can last for years at a time. It's almost inevitable that someone is going to die during one or more of these games, and we will have no way of knowing that it happened beyond a mysterious and frustrating absence.
Waxahachie
member, 140 posts
The horn that wakes
the sleepers
Wed 12 Oct 2016
at 06:11
  • msg #42

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

If disappearing GMs is becoming such a problem for you, I suggest looking at a GM's track record before you sign up for their games. Wanted: Players puts this information out to you at the bottom of every ad. Alternatively you can search a GM's history by using the Browse/Search the games link on the main page.

For example if you see a GM that has a few games with a couple hundred posts, and a handful of deleted games with about the same, it might give you an idea about that individual's likelihood of success or failure in sustaining a game over time. Looking at those games can also give you an appreciation for the types of games they run. Of course, there are variables like the number of players, type of game, and quality to consider, but I find that if a GM hasn't managed to take a game past at least a 1000, let alone 2000 posts, it isn't likely to happen this time.

Of course, we have to give new GMs a chance from time to time.

But I have managed to virtually eliminate both GM and player disappearance from my RPOL experience by cultivating a network of friends to game with. Here are my tips for doing this:

- When you find a good GM that runs a lasting game let them know you're having a good time. Play in other games they run if possible.
- Let your fellow roleplayers know when you think they made a great post. They might invite you to their next game.
- Recommend good games to your friends.
- Recommend good players to your GMs.
- GM a game of your own. Invite other players that you know to it to give it the best chance of success. Take a chance on one or two new people.
- Encourage your players (the ones who post well and regularly) to run games of their own, and support them by playing in their games and suggesting players.

When you do all these things, you effectively create your own community on RPOL made up of people who more likely than not share your style, your gaming interests, and between you, you have trust and mutual appreciation of what you bring to the virtual gaming table.

Doing these things, I've created a great network of players and GMs. Every game I play in is run by a current or former player (and they all know each other), and almost every game I'm in I have another current/former player or GM in there as a fellow player. Since I've done this, I haven't experienced this phenomenon of people disappearing - and those that have left have always returned. One of them ran my first game on RPOL seven years ago. Three of them played in the first game I ran.
This message was last edited by the user at 13:34, Wed 12 Oct 2016.
TheSnowpanther
member, 320 posts
Adventure be my name,
Roleplaying be my game!
Sat 5 Nov 2016
at 06:31
  • msg #43

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Thank's Waxahachie, those are some good tips to keep in mind from now on when figuring whether or not to RTJ to a game, etc..
This message was last edited by the user at 08:35, Sat 17 Dec 2016.
Hunter
member, 1340 posts
Captain Oblivious!
Lurker
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 05:37
  • msg #44

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

PCO.Spvnky:
This is why I do not apply for games that require extensive rtjs anymore.  I have spent hours/days working on an rtj only to have the gm quit the game a couple days after starting it.  It is frustrating to put that much effort into something only to have the group die that you made it for.


I've by and large given up on finding games to play in because anything I might be interested in...the GM wants a novel or something similar.    I'm of the opinion that low level characters (in particular) should have a very limited backstory.   As a GM, I tend to prefer a picture and a paragraph.

It's easy to expand a character's background as you go.   I'd rather not have to start out that way.
icosahedron152
member, 688 posts
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 07:08
  • msg #45

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Hunter, I’m not sure whether you’re talking about GMs making a novel of the game, or just about making a novel out of your background description, so I’ll address both issues.

There are two types of game out there:

1. Hack and slash, like the original D&D, AKA ‘Roll Play’, where all you need to know about your character is his name, class, and stats; the GM puts traps and monsters in front of you, and then you just roll dice to learn what happens.

2. Storytelling, AKA ‘Role Play’, where the GM and players collaborate in telling the story of their characters’ adventures, based on their backgrounds, personalities, thoughts, feelings and interactions - playing a role like an actor.

There are plenty of examples of both types of game out there, so I don’t think there is a need to give up on your hobby.

However, this site has, by its nature, a written format, and you need to write in order to communicate with your fellow gamers - even in the hack and slash games.

Consider how much talk goes on in a typical face to face game. While the players are rolling the dice, they are also talking - about what their character is doing, where he’s standing, whether his weapon is drawn or sheathed, what he thinks about the all-too-straight-and-inviting corridor, etc.

In this medium, all that stuff has to be written down (which can feel like an essay or novel, sometimes), but if it isn’t written down, misunderstandings arise, or the GM runs out of information to work with - are the PCs walking down that corridor or not? Does their lack of posts mean that they’re quietly following the elf, or does it mean they’re standing still and waiting to see what happens to the elf? The GM can’t see the players picking up figurines and moving them across the table (unless you’re also running on a medium outside Rpol), and there is no background chatter apart from what is written. Consequently, lack of player input can kill a game quickly.

Even more so in a storytelling (acting) game. Plays, screenplays and novels are driven by conversation. If the characters don’t converse in a storytelling game, the game is dead in the water.

As for expanding a character’s background as you go, that can be a nightmare for a GM. The last thing a GM wants is to have two NPCs conversing in German in order to keep their plans secret, only to have Player Three suddenly announce “My character learned German when he spent two years over there as an exchange student...”
Even if you’re not guilty of that, certain other players are, and I can understand why a GM wants to nail down exactly what your character’s prior experiences are before the game starts.

However, I can also agree that you don’t need several pages of description. A few paragraphs ought to be enough to describe a character’s background - and if it isn’t there, it didn’t happen.

Remember also, the GM uses your character background to decide what to throw at the characters - what will challenge them, what will interest them etc. If all she’s got to work with is “My character is an Elf and he hates Orcs”, she’s going to struggle to create an interesting game for you, even if it’s a hack and slash.
Hunter
member, 1341 posts
Captain Oblivious!
Lurker
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 07:16
  • msg #46

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

icosahedron152:
However, I can also agree that you don’t need several pages of description. A few paragraphs ought to be enough to describe a character’s background - and if it isn’t there, it didn’t happen.


Exactly this.  But many RTJs do feel like they want a novel rather than a simple who, what, when, and where.  It doesn't help that I tend to write what are often short and very precise posts.
facemaker329
member, 6860 posts
Gaming for over 30
years, and counting!
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 07:37
  • msg #47

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

In reply to icosahedron152 (msg # 45):

I'll weigh in on the 'expand the background as I play' thing...because there are different ways that can be taken.  The first is as outlined in your example...characters exploit blank spots in their background to insert whatever advantage they feel they need in the moment.  The second...which is what I commonly see...is more a matter of coming up with specifics to flesh out general notes...

As an example, in one of the games I play, it's a near-future sci-fi game with a military setting.  One of the characters is a Marine sniper.  On starting, he'd never been assigned away from Earth, but he had a decade and a half of experience in the field.  The GM didn't make the player go through and delineate where on Earth the character had served, for how long, or what the precise nature of his assignments had been...but at various points in the game, the player dropped hints to expand on the 'decade and a half of combat duty on Earth'...comments about the rocky surface of an asteroid reminding him of his assignment in the Middle East, or the overgrown jungles of another world being even worse than South American rainforest...

I like that style.  I have never been the type to nail down every detail of my character's backstory, even before I started playing on RPOL.  AFTER RPOL, I'm even less inclined to detail the entire history, because so often, games fold up shop a few scenes into play (I've lost track of how many games I've joined that never even made it through the first scene, or games I joined that had been running for a while and folded before MY first scene had finished).  I'll put together all the relevant details that I feel I need to start playing the character, which often includes a lot of stuff that only exists to clarify the really key details (like my Scion FBI agent started playing football in high school...which made him popular enough to be noteworthy for standing up for kids who were being bullied when most of his teammates ignored them or were the bullies, for instance)...but there will be other details that I'll weave into the character (working with the GM) as I go along...and I work really hard to keep those details plausible and not just convenient for whatever occasion my character is facing.

I get it.  Building a character can be an arduous process...and some GMs elevate it from 'entertaining intellectual exercise' to 'overwhelming onerous burden'.  If I feel like a GM wants too much from me before I can even join the game, I won't even bother with an RTJ to that game.  I've had a lot of luck with GMs who understand my style of character creation and work with me on it...even though I suspect some of them have become more stringent in their requirements because some other players aren't as conscientious about 'plausible expansion' of character details and try to write in anything and everything they can.  But there ARE GMs out there who don't expect you to write a novella on your character's life story before you can join the game.
swordchucks
member, 1325 posts
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 14:36
  • msg #48

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

As a GM, I usually try to get the PCs to give me high-level backstories on the order of one or two paragraphs.  They typically need a good reason for any major advantages or disadvantages (not all, just the big ones) and a reason for being in the current situation.  Any more than that, and I probably won't bother reading it in the first place.

As a player, I used to write long backgrounds, but that's fallen away with time.  If nothing else, a background is a static thing and I often find that a long background doesn't necessarily mesh well with the dynamic character in play.  My characters tend to find a voice over their first several posts, and that voice can change a lot as I feel them out.  Having a big backstory locking me in to a certain personality when I find I'd rather play a different one is far from an advantage for me.
icosahedron152
member, 689 posts
Thu 10 Nov 2016
at 19:01
  • msg #49

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?


Facemaker:
AFTER RPOL, I'm even less inclined to detail the entire history, because so often, games fold up shop a few scenes into play (I've lost track of how many games I've joined that never even made it through the first scene, or games I joined that had been running for a while and folded before MY first scene had finished).


True - which is the focus of this entire thread.

Facemaker:
Building a character can be an arduous process...and some GMs elevate it from 'entertaining intellectual exercise' to 'overwhelming onerous burden'.


Also true. Character generation (including the RTJ part) should be fun. If it isn’t, it doesn’t bode well for the rest of the game.

Facemaker:
there will be other details that I'll weave into the character (working with the GM) as I go along...and I work really hard to keep those details plausible and not just convenient for whatever occasion my character is facing.


And that’s the key to any ongoing character development - working with the GM to create a plausible story, with no sudden surprises. I don’t believe a GM should ever be surprised by something a player adds to a story. Players, OTOH, can be surprised all the time by the GM. :)
Waxahachie
member, 143 posts
The horn that wakes
the sleepers
Sat 19 Nov 2016
at 00:30
  • msg #50

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

As a GM, when I cast out for new players that aren't already known to me, I generally prefer the RTJ process to be relatively quick. I don't do the whole "first come, first served" thing. I'm selective, and I let people know that up front. As such, I don't really expect them to craft an elaborate background if I haven't even accepted them. But I will ask for a writing sample of a few paragraphs, and I feel like that's reasonable. It doesn't even have to relate to the game in question. Anything they've written for a game. The written word is our medium, and I prefer to have players that can write and express themselves decently.

After joining, I do go through a somewhat more lengthy process that asks for some detail and history, though. I find if people don't do it before the game starts, a lot of them will never get to it.
TheSnowpanther
member, 332 posts
Adventure be my name,
Roleplaying be my game!
Tue 23 May 2017
at 16:30
  • msg #51

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Everyone is making some good points here.  I think everyone could learn a good deal if they read this topic.
pdboddy
member, 535 posts
Tue 23 May 2017
at 18:01
  • msg #52

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

In the time that I have GM'd and played here, my father's had two heart attacks and been in a huge car accident.  I've lost two uncles, an aunt, several cousins, and a couple of friends.

You never know how these things will affect you until they happen to you.  Depression is a terrible thing.  It's not sadness... it's that everything that used to have some joy in it, no longer does.

The urge to roleplay, or run a game, just dies in the face of the black dog.

If anyone's ever wondered why I've poofed at times, there it is, among other things.
Eur512
member, 765 posts
Fri 26 May 2017
at 15:22
  • msg #53

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Having been there, yes, it's a reality.  Sometimes the drive and desire to play is just sucked away and vanishes, and you have no idea where it went or how to get it back.

And its not just depression, when you're older, and especially if you're male because our society has certain expectations of us, through the deaths and stress and crises you're supposed to be the one managing things, the rock and the support for everyone else.  And of course that feeds right into that depression, which you're not supposed to have because you're supposed to be the one everyone relies on.. yeah, when you're facing it you just can't sit at a keyboard and think about what happens when the Halfling Hero jumps on the Troll's back.

So you have the young GM Attention Span Of Caffeinated Ferret problem, and older GMs with the Dragged Down By Life Events problem.

I suppose the trick is to find the sweet spot in the middle.   But asking a potential GM about the health and financial security of family members might be going too far.
byzantinex
member, 108 posts
Sun 4 Jun 2017
at 15:43
  • msg #54

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

icosahedron152:
it comes down to two words that are somewhat out of fashion these days: Duty and Responsibility.


I say this as a heterosexual male, I love you man. +1000 to everything you said in your whole post.

I feel the exact same way.

I've found the solution to the problem that subjects this forum is play in a few games until you find those reliable people and simply stick with them.

My other solution is to only run modules when I start GMing a game. Then I'm not heavily invested and devastated if people disappear.
This message was last edited by the user at 23:04, Sun 04 June 2017.
Isida KepTukari
member, 142 posts
Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Sun 4 Jun 2017
at 21:48
  • msg #55

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

For me, it's often that same combination of Duty and Responsibility.  I'm the primary breadwinner, I work a twelve hour shift at night, but I work a schedule that's two days on/two days off sort of thing.  On the surface this seems great, I can devote a lot of time to gaming every couple of days.  But if I spent the last two working days getting little sleep and then need to catch up on chores, want to hang out with my husband/friends, do anything social, or flipping sleep, Rpol gets shoved further down the list.  Besides, you Do Not Want me to exhausted-post.  It's like drunk posting, but with even more spelling errors and incoherency.

And trying to force myself to post doesn't yield the best results.  I want the time I spent gaming on Rpol to yield really good results, because I can go back and read what I've written, and I don't want to to be a bunch of gobbledygook.
Telsij
member, 6 posts
Star Wars: WEG / D6 !
Thu 8 Jun 2017
at 21:38
  • msg #56

Re: Are you suffering from GM Abandonment Syndrome?

Just wanted to chime in to say thank you to those that contributed their thoughts to this thread. Having joined only a few months ago, I was (and continue to be) super into it, but was quite disappointed that my first game wound up grinding to a halt due to GM disappearance after only a few weeks.

Thankfully, as some have already mentioned above, the group of players who were involved in the game turned out to be quite the dedicated and likable bunch, and so I managed to rescue the PC I'd invested so much in and bring her with me to another game run by a member of that same group. Real life always take priority of course and real life woes trump all hobby concerns. Nonetheless, it was good to hear the human voice and reasoning behind silent disappearance. Best wishes to those that have encountered the various troubles named in this thread!
This message was last edited by the user at 22:12, Thu 08 June 2017.
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