Agreed. As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if one is looking for things to play up to better seem like that race, then they're on a bit of a knife's edge, because stereotypes are the easiest such aspects to find.

That is an interesting point, are you really play another race, or simply using an ethnically specific portrait? The Star War's movies are an example of how simply using the accent can get some people upset, is there anything about ethnic identity that you can use that won't be taken the wrong way, other than a portrait?

The problem with Star Wars and Transformers was they used those accents on characters that was, well, no other way to put it other than they were a mockery of the race.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with taking traits from another group to flesh out a character. Only crazy people get upset about that.  Like the girl who attacked a boy for having dreadlocks calling it 'cultural appropriation.' Or the people who got upset that a cosplayer used bodypaint to look like another race because the character was dark skinned and the cosplayer was not.
This message was last edited by the user at 16:47, Mon 06 June 2016.

One of the advantages of participating in RPOL is the chance of broadening and deepening one's creative writing. That implies trying out that which differs from the RL you.

Regardless of what one tries, I think one should respect one's avatar if for no other reason that, IMO, what you put into your avatar affects who you are and your repertoire.

Being a GM, I include NPCs of various genders and ethnicities in my stories. As such, I will sometimes use a dialect to put the character across. I might also play some characters as dumb or silly, flirty or cowardly, in addition to those that are clever, brave, strong, generous, etc. I write pre-generated PCs with all these characteristics and more.

What I always try to be very careful about is not to play or write stereotypes for any character. When I have had players portray someone of a differing gender or ethnicity in my games, I'm glad to report that I've never had anyone lean on an offensive prejudice of that group.

>>> drewalt: If you think people can't deliberately give offense to others, I think you have been very lucky or very sheltered. Watch some political coverage and I guarantee it will come up.

Getting offended at a political opinion means objectivity and rationality have been abandoned in favor of ideology and emotional investment in same.

In reply to Piestar (msg # 7):

Well, you there's never going to be a guarantee that someone won't take something the wrong way. I think one should do their best to play in good faith, and not take umbrage if someone expresses concern. Ideally, the person with the concern will also see the interest in playing someone of a different race or gender or the like and will be willing to offer a compromise or third approach, rather than just wanting the portrayal to stop.

It depends, is the player attempting to play a strong character or are they playing a mockery of said ethnicity.  If the player would be embarrassed to play the character in front of someone of the corresponding ethnicity then they shouldn't be playing it.

That's a really good point. Gaming on RPoL allows a level of anonymity that can be a bit seductive.

I tend to play genders about 60/40, I enjoy playing a female character for party balance and role-playing opportunities. I transferred a character from here to another site where you actually share chat, and quickly discovered that it was a lot harder to play a female, in a group with real females, when they can hear my voice. I wasn't embarrassed, but the other player was clearly uncomfortable, and it made things awkward.

I don't think I would play another female in that format.

Not sure how that would work, race wise. I do remember back in the day, when no one listed the ed. number because there was just AD&D, players who would play monks with a stereotypical Charlie Chan or King Fu style broken English, but we had no Asians in the group. I wonder if that would have made the players less comfortable with that style of humor.

... I'm not sure it's as much about being embarrassed, as how the other player feels. As in, you might be embarrassed to do so, because the actual person from another race might point out how accurate some stereotypes really are.

Personally, I'd avoid the stereotypes which were clearly created not so much about how they were, but how other groups -wanted- them to be. I'd avoid accents, because I don't do accents well. (Even typed). And I would probably try to avoid too much discussion about how 'hard it is to be my race/gender/whatever'.

It largely depends on how much exposure you have to the other group, and how much of it is based on movies/books. Generally, we have most likely come across people of the opposite gender. But much exposure to other races/cultures/etc have we had? Enough to make a non-stereotyped portrayal of one?

Do you think it would be any different based on the game/genre/culture in which you are playing? Being Asian or Black in a fantasy game without any of the real world history seems to be to have a different baseline from playing a historical game, or playing in a modern setting.

I haven't seen any games set in the Civil War era, but I have seen games played in the Chinese/Japanese world in the twenties and thirties, which historically was pretty tense racially.

In reply to Piestar (msg # 16):

I do. Because I think playing a minority group in a setting where that's tense, can make it feel like, no matter what your intentions, you're belittling the struggle these groups had.

Now if -everyone- was playing it, because that was the setting, I'd probably let it pass. But if you were the only one, and someone who actually was of that culture took offense, I think at the least you should volunteer to change your character. Just because you didn't mean to offend, doesn't mean you shouldn't consider how it's affecting others, in particular in those times.

But in fantasy/sci-fi games, it is usually more 'just happens to be that race/gender'.

...why is gender, race, species even a concern? If I play a male or female character, what makes that character who they are is what they do and say, which wont be affected by the gender but the background. Like the only actual difference is the body shape and parts.

The issues I have had with guys playing girls is when it is clearly just so they can make the female a total slut. I'm a dude, but i still find that callow and shallow.

Racially there are a lot of negative stereotypes, and even some positive ones that make people uncomfortable. Hard to believe, but making the Asian guy good at math can upset some people. If you were to play a black male as a drug dealing, Ebonics talking pimp, I think some people would get upset. If I were to play a villain as a southern white male, with strong accent, Confederate flag and the like, I think there might be some people who get upset at that as well.

To be fair, I've seen girls playing girls doing that as well. Sometimes it's even fit the character; though it's best if it's just a known thing rather than something we see alluded to all the time.

But also, gender, race and species -affects- the background. Usually, females don't act like males and vice versa. Sometimes they do; but they often don't. It's even more pronounced with race.

In reply to willvr (msg # 20):

I guess I was a bit unclear, it isn't a bad thing to have a sexually aggressive female character, it just becomes an issue when that is all they are, every comment, every gesture, every action is predicated on the fact that the character is a sexual joke.

I also find it rather humorous how many female characters will have a charisma of ten or twelve, and describe themselves as raving and use pictures of gorgeous woman. The personality required for that to balance out would be nearer to Dr. Mengele than the flirty character that results.

In reply to Piestar (msg # 21):

Aaah okay. Yeah. I've seen that.

Part of the problem is the pictures available. It's doable to find a horrendously ugly character. It's definitely easy to find a picture of a gorgeous woman. It's not quite so easy to find someone about average, or a bit above or bit below. And then beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. We had a debate about that in one of the games; about whether certain characters should have the attractiveness value given in game or not.

I had a wonderful character who was an illusionist with a low charisma, and I played her as a doughty spinster type. Would sleep apart from the men, etc. She was a blast, and I thought portrait fh17004 a perfect capture of her personality. Currently trying finish working on a another homely female and I am using a picture of Calamity Jane, if you know her, a wild west character looking like a youngish Ma Kettle. (fh19027)

I've never really had a problem finding homely characters of either gender.

I'm in the camp of people who think that, as long as the character is played legitimately, race is a non-factor.  I mean, Finn could just as easily been played by ANY ethnicity and the character would still work.  For that matter, so could Rey (at least, given what little we know of her...depending on who her parents are, ethnicity could become an important factor...)

I think it comes down to a question of whether you're playing a character that makes sense, but just happens to be a given ethnicity, as opposed to playing the ethnicity and trying to make that the character (playing the stereotype, as someone described it above).  If you're playing the PERSON, you're okay...if you're playing the LABEL, you're pushing your luck if you worry about someone taking offense.

In reply to facemaker329 (msg # 24):

I think you've blurred the line between race and ethnicity. Finn is racially black, but he is in no way ethnically African American.

To play as if ethnicity is a non-issue is almost an insult in one sense, as it boils us all down into one puddle of grey goo and removes the part of ethnic differences that are supposed to be so valuable and cherished, according to the people who gave the Leveraging Diversity classes for my last employer. (Hilarious crowd, they had no clue what they were doing sadly enough, telling us to ignore and embrace ethnicity in one breath.)

Guilty as charged, I suppose.  Still...

I worked with several women who were of Greek ancestry.  Most of the time, you'd never know it...I wouldn't have known it, save for their last names and the fact that, at the time, there was a Greek festival in one of the nearby cities and they couldn't stop going on about how excited they were for it.  I have known, at different points in my life, five or six Armenians.  Again, aside from the occasional explicit statement about their ancestry, they were just like everyone else I knew.  I've worked with a few people of African descent...which was a little more obvious, visually, and because of that, they tended to make jokes about their own ancestry and upbringing out of habit...but overall, they were just like anyone else I worked with or grew up around.  The Vietnamese kid that played trombone in my high school marching band?  Aside from a slightly more difficult name to pronounce and a few visual differences, he was just another kid in an American high school.

It's an issue if you choose to make it an issue.  Some people insist on making it an issue.  Some people are just busy being who they're going to be and don't want to spare the time and energy talking about it to make it an issue.

So, the most honest answer I can give to your question is, yes and no.  Some people will find it incredibly offensive, some people won't give it a second thought (unless you make it a jingoist caricature of an interpretation, and then I hope they take exception to it).  I work with people of several different ethnic and racial backgrounds and it makes no difference to me, or to pretty much anyone I work with...but I know that those same people can go somewhere across town and likely get a much less open acceptance.

Roleplaying games aren't like Hollywood, where people are upset because the lead is ALWAYS a white male and parts that should be cast with specific ethnicities are cast with the the same white-bread actors.  Diversifying your cast of characters is kind of what that whole movement is about...getting people to start to see that the hero doesn't always have to be some square-jawed straight white male, and that the woman doesn't always have to be the love interest/damsel in distress, and being a different ethnic background doesn't automatically relegate you to sidekick status, at best.  Telling someone that they should only roleplay their own ethnicity or gender is akin, to me, to telling screenwriters that they can only use characters of their own ethnicity or gender...and that would get really boring, really fast.

Wow, people do that over here. Fudge. I thought that was just -rpsite that cannot be named due to age restrictions- and such, I'd expect more developed character here then genitals on legs :P

Stereotypes have that effect on people, personally I just find them bland. If I can peg your entire dialogue and thought process just by your first two posts and your character  description you've made a 2D character and it's boring.

... Hang on a minute; is the debate really about whether one should play different ethnicities? Because in that case I heartily think you should. I just think you should be careful about doing it; so you're not blatantly offensive.

Yes, I think that on occasions ethnicity can govern how someone acts. I've met some like that, who never let you forget what they've been through, that you haven't. But to state that you can only play your own gende, your own ethnic group well... you might as well say you can only play your own social class or whatever. Shouldn't be done.

Well let me ask you a question.

You're playing a Jewish person during the middle ages. How do you, in game, show that you are a member of this ethnicity, beyond saying 'hello, I'm Jewish."

Alternately, you're playing an urban African American youth in (or from) the ghetto in a Modern game, what traits would you give him?

Remember, the line is thin, show enough traits to show you are actually playing that ethnicity, but avoid anything offensive.

In reply to Piestar (msg # 29):

Middle Ages Jew: depending on the specific century and country, there's articles of clothing and fashion that tended to be part of the typical look for many different groups in an area. For that matter, that assumes the character wants to be identified, and isn't simply passing themselves off as a gentile

Modern Urban African-American Youth: again, style and manner of dress, articles and manner of speech. You can "dress" a character without going into racist stereotype. And the important question again, is the character looking to be identified a certain way?