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14:40, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

The 'Safe Zone'

Posted by ~Jaguar
~Jaguar
member, 3268 posts
The Hiding Amaranth...
http://midnightquills.net
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 01:18
  • msg #1

The 'Safe Zone'

Something's just come to mind as one of my games starts to get a bit more solidly underway... Moving past the early introduction phase.

It's been a while since I've been here, so I'm curious to see where people think this might be at these days.

What would you consider the "save zone" of a game? As in, the point where you feel confident that it's going to keep going and that you're going to get some good gaming out of it, from both the players and the GM?

Do you think you'd base it on a post count? Or a particular point in the story? Or something else?

I mean, we've probably all had games that we got really excited about, which then fell apart before they really got started. So where, in those early stages, do you start to feel safe?
This message was last updated by the user at 01:18, Thu 12 Nov 2015.
GamerHandle
member, 844 posts
Umm.. yep.
So, there's this door...
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 01:25
  • msg #2

The 'Safe Zone'

Never.  Might sound a bit harsh.  But, never.  I've had games begin with 13 players and end with 4.

I've had games where I've replaced the whole cast mid-stride.

I've played in games where the above were also true.
CosmicGamer
member, 127 posts
Traveller RPG (Mongoose)
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 04:26
  • msg #3

The 'Safe Zone'

Once it has made it through the winter holiday season and a summer schools out period.  The two times when it seams that people drop from games - other than the typical initial game start drops.
facemaker329
member, 6689 posts
Gaming for over 30
years, and counting!
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 05:21
  • msg #4

The 'Safe Zone'

I'm with GamerHandle.  I've had games die in the first two hundred posts, I've had games get to several thousand and then just fade out.  There are too many variables to calculate a 'safe zone'...just the impact of real-life events, alone, makes it an almost impossible task.  I mean, I was in a game that had a few thousand posts, had been running solidly for two or three years...one medical problem with the GM and it all came to a screeching halt.  Changes in work schedules, a sudden serious relationship, family issues...these have all caused halts in games I've been in, or caused major players in those games to drop out.  Get enough of them to happen at the same time or close enough together...or any of them to happen to the GM without a co-GM ready to take the reins...and your game's in trouble.
V_V
member, 495 posts
You can call me V, just V
Life; a journey made once
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 09:18
  • msg #5

The 'Safe Zone'

When the line of communication is consistent, say for a calendar year. That gives you a distinct and remarkable timeline. Holidays kills games. Disaster kills games. Quickies move on when the high goes away, which is valid if that's their motivation for gaming. Melodramatics lose interest when the plot has to become slow and sin;t skipping to the chase. I could go on. The point is ask questions. When people don't answer direct questions and beat around the bush, you're losing contact.

Game safety is (at least like) trust. You never know if you have it, you know when it's gone though, broken and dead. I feel safe in games where the players/GM are direct and address their problems and mine. When I say "Hey am I going to fast?" and others say something like "Yes, I'm hardly able to keep up!" or "Nah, I've been rearing to go." or "Holidays are coming up, we'll probably want to pick up the pace after that, but for now you're fine." or some variation of RL becoming more or less demanding.

Communication solves more than half of the problems in any forum. I had a person tell me they were a professional problem solver, but in fact she caused a dozen problems just by fixing something nobody wanted her to. "We need drama!" No, we don't. This isn't a soap opera. We just finished a major arch. We're allowing people to have downtime and plan on an independent level, to have low-key conversations and show the world has come to a calm. "We need fast posts people! How can we get people motivated?" Honey, people are active in PMs, see post #342 of this thread this is interpersonal time. And so on. Basically she left because the game was "dead" but it thrived after she was out of the picture and wasn't asking loading questions. Nice gal, just very misguided.

Keep the line of communication open. Ask a direct question, then post something, anything (not superfluous) if the cast sees both posts and isn't saying "hey. sorry. busy" or "I'm on my phone" or "PC broken" they are avoiding posting.

I have been without a keyboard and could use my mouse. My PC has been trashed and I went to the library. If they're logging in, they can type three words.

Once communication is broken, the rest is just dominos to the trend. Silence can be repaired and prevented, but communication is a great tool, like the wheel, to get things moving. Everything else is throwing rocks to get it to budge.

My safe zone is that period of time just after RL has been a ragged storm in troubled waters and the sky becomes clear. When I come back from long silence of not logigng in. Then I know hell or high-water the game will go on, by who remained on board. It's like a ship, keep posting, keep writing, even if you have thirty player cast, if even one is posting keep posting. If that player or GM is trying, you can double the effort just by being active. If they want another player, they can say "Hey, can we add/remove someone" if they're the only one posting then do it. Give some time for a refutation and then just keep going. Number 1 rule (for games) is have fun. Along that rule, in the fine print, is that the game must go on.

That's my opinion on the matter. Establish what people want, if they can't give that, that's on them. But if you don't want to GM tell people that, unless game is somehow consigned to some contract, it should be fun. It's not a job, and that bears repeating, it's not a job (to many at least). Just be honest, and clean up after yourself when you're done. People will move on. History dictates that truth.

Once you know this much, it doesn't need to be "safe" it's exciting and fun. A story can just end in mid sentence and leave you wanting more but be glad for the journey this far. Most good stories, I've heard/read, just end, your jaw drops and you look around...but that's it many games I've run successfully are on the ashes of dead games, mine, my friends' and even people I disliked but enjoyed their stories and carried the torch.

*shrug* Those are my rules I live by. I don't begrudge others for disagreeing, it's subjective, and that's natural. I just avoid them because they aren't compatible with me, and negatively impact my fun. I choose to think I would reciprocate the mood if I gamed with them. Know what you want, ask what others want. Discuss disputes. Invent solutions. Repeat every so often. >50% success right there.

Now, does that help? Even if only some parts contributed. Even if just by you thinking, hey I disagree, but that does beg the question...

If ask enough questions, and give enough input, million-to-one chances of a match are negligible...they happen every month. You don't need to have a formula at that point.
truemane
member, 2018 posts
Firing magic missles at
the darkness!
Thu 12 Nov 2015
at 13:27
  • msg #6

The 'Safe Zone'

I think V_V has the heart of it. Just about anyone, in just about any circumstance, can find the 18 seconds it takes to post 'Busy busy, talk in a week.' Someone who just vanishes, aside from REAL emergencies, has generally vanished because the game isn't doing it for them anymore.

I start to relax after the initial couple of scenes are done. Once the players have met, left the tavern, had a fight, and started the plot. It's at that point that the shiny has faded and the real work of the game has begun. At that point we know if we really like our characters, have chemistry as a group, mesh well with the GM's style.

Once we're into the story, then we know if the game has a chance. Doesn't mean it's going to last, but it means it has a chance.
praguepride
member, 1050 posts
"Hugs for the Hugs God!"
- Warhammer Fluffy-K
Mon 30 Nov 2015
at 21:58
  • msg #7

The 'Safe Zone'

I have to say I never take a game for granted. Maybe if I was closer to the person, talked to them on a regular basis about non-game stuff I could better judge things but online, it's too easy for a game to start strong and then die unexpectedly and for all I know the GM was hit by a bus or conquered a crippling internet addiction and from my context he disappears without warning.

THAT BEING SAID... 3 months. It is very easy for a game to start off strong in the first month with a flurry of activity, settle down in the second month as the game starts getting going. Then the GM realizes how slow things go, how we're 2 months in and we're barely out of the opening tavern (or equivalent there in) and the enthusiasm and energy dies out as it is replaced with the daily grind of updating and moving things along.

The game withers and by the 3rd month it's dead.
pdboddy
member, 481 posts
Mon 30 Nov 2015
at 22:15
  • msg #8

The 'Safe Zone'

As someone who has flamed out as a GM before, and as a player, and having watched others do the same thing, I would say that there really is no safe zone for a game.

If you plan out small-ish story arcs, that last maybe a few months at a time, and if you can get past character creation for the initial group, you can probably make a game last several thousand posts.  As long as you bring in fresh players whenever people bow out, and you should also consider having a least one co-GM to help you out, you can keep a game alive for quite a long time.

But for a lot of people, it's probably too much 'work' for something that's supposed to be fun.
CosmicGamer
member, 129 posts
Traveller RPG (Mongoose)
Tue 1 Dec 2015
at 13:59
  • msg #9

The 'Safe Zone'

And then when you think the game is going strong something like Fallout 4 comes out..
Mrrshann618
member, 67 posts
Tue 1 Dec 2015
at 14:32
  • msg #10

The 'Safe Zone'

Thanks to the multitude of holidays this time of the year it tends to slow down a LOT!
Of the two games that I was running at this time last year, only one has survived past the new year.

College kids back home for holidays tend to work/hangout like mad and ignore the games for a bit. Family gatherings of all kinds are in full swing. Holiday vacations are rampant.

As a GM I just let everyone know that I understand the slower times and I adjust accordingly. As V_V said, communication is the key, something I just fell victim to as Black Friday tore me to shreds (I work retail as a manager having recently lost a few workers putting me below minimums for keeping tills actually open without snagging floor personnel)
While I have not lost any players (that I know of) I did let the quality in my posts suffer without a real explanation.
~Jaguar
member, 3272 posts
The Hiding Amaranth...
http://midnightquills.net
Fri 11 Dec 2015
at 13:16
  • msg #11

Re: The 'Safe Zone'

praguepride:
THAT BEING SAID... 3 months. It is very easy for a game to start off strong in the first month with a flurry of activity, settle down in the second month as the game starts getting going. Then the GM realizes how slow things go, how we're 2 months in and we're barely out of the opening tavern (or equivalent there in) and the enthusiasm and energy dies out as it is replaced with the daily grind of updating and moving things along.

The game withers and by the 3rd month it's dead.


I liked this. Good thoughts... And probably actually does fit with my own experiences from back in the day.

@Mrrshann618... I find it funny that my "slow" periods seem to be quite often the busy periods for others, and vice-versa. For me, the holidays seem to be obviously times when I have more time to pay attention to recreational online activities such as RPoL, yet others seem to disappear at the same time. It's kind of like Sundays in my world, too... I'm regularly glancing back at RPoL on a quiet Sunday afternoon waiting for someone to post, but nothing's happening.

Then comes the week, and suddenly I'm, like, busy with the "real world," and suddenly everyone else wants to start posting! :P
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