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14:49, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question.

Posted by Varsovian
Varsovian
member, 1139 posts
Tue 25 Aug 2015
at 22:52
  • msg #1

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

I see that game mentioned in various places... And I'm wondering about something:

Basically, why is the game named like that?

I may be mistaken, but from what I've seen, this game is another of the OSR-inspired D&D clones. Meaning, it's probably a pretty generic system... why such a specific name, then? And why do the authors describe the game as "weird fiction"?

Am I missing something here? Is there really a lamenting princess in that game..?
nauthiz
member, 382 posts
Tue 25 Aug 2015
at 23:23
  • msg #2

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

Pretty good interview with James Raggi IV, the designer and author.

http://suvudu.com/2011/06/an-i...-flame-princess.html

Two of the relevant answers he gave from that interview that might answer some of your questions.


What does “Lamentations of the Flame Princess” mean? It’s an incredibly evocative game title and company name. How did you come up with it?

In 1997 I was online and surfing the web for the first time. Linked off of some band’s website (and not many bands had sites back then) was this Finnish girl’s personal website. Long red hair, dressed in period clothing and doing these cool photo shoots, I’d never seen anyone like that before. Of course the contact links were all dead, I couldn’t read anything on the site, so I created a story, a mythology, out of these images, and that’s where the idea of the Flame Princess came from. A little while later I hooked up with a girl in Atlanta that looked quite the same, with even longer redder hair, so the whole thing really stuck.

In 1998 I started a heavy metal fanzine. At the time I was into bands such as Opeth and My Dying Bride and Sculptured and Scholomance and others that used a lot of fluffy and pretentious titles like that, and I thought using a name along those lines would help “ally” my zine with the right kind of music. I released over 60 issues of that zine in print, with the last being in 2007 (it will return… someday…!).

When I started my RPG writing and publishing, I simply saw no reason to abandon the name I’d used for ten years. I’m creepyobsessive that way.


You’ve recently released Lamentations of the Flame Princess Weird Fantasy Role-Playing: Grindhouse Edition. How does the “Grindhouse Edition” differ from the previous edition of the rules? Also, would you mind defining “Weird Fantasy”? How does it differ from other kinds of fantasy? Can you give me an example?

The Grindhouse Edition is different from the previous Deluxe Edition in really only a few ways:

The first is presentation. The success of the Deluxe Edition allowed me to completely revamp the layout, commit to a much larger print run so I could have much higher quality physical books, and get loads of quality new art pieces. It’s much more enjoyable to hold, to look at, to read, and when they came off the presses they even smelled like real books, and because of the larger print run I was able to get this all done at a cheaper per-unit price than the Deluxe Edition, so the whole thing is less expensive to buy.

As far as rules changes, the spell list was heavily modified, with spells struck from the list, moved around, and new spells added. The rather lean skill system was further simplified to an even shorter list. Bits and bobs were changed around the game, but mostly trivial things that are so nitpicky as to bore your readers to death if I listed them.

I use Weird Fantasy to differentiate the game from heroic “let’s go on a quest and save the world” fantasy or sword & sorcery type fantasy or power fantasy, the main approaches in games of this type. It’s got a bit of horror, a bit of just plain strangeness. Traditionally these games are about gold and glory, but in my game there’s this atmosphere of inevitable disaster and doom that creeps in from the edges even if you’re not trying to do that.

The official definition of “Weird” is taken from HP Lovecraft’s Supernatural Fiction in Literature essay, and it’s reinforced as the interior box flaps take quotes from Algernon Blackwood’s The Willows story, but the game is not sharply focused on that, as I believe games that are that focused do not lend themselves to long term play, and I prefer games that are intended for longterm (multiple real-life years) campaigns.
Varsovian
member, 1140 posts
Wed 26 Aug 2015
at 20:48
  • msg #3

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

Interesting! Thank you very much.

I see that the "atmosphere of disaster and doom" is mentioned. Does it really appear in the book? Are there any rules related to it, like in Call of Cthulhu?
nauthiz
member, 383 posts
Wed 26 Aug 2015
at 21:41
  • msg #4

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

It is mentioned, and there are some rules that could be used, but mechanics are actually discouraged.

quote:
In game terms, particularly horrifying or bizarre happenings or circumstances can trigger a Loyalty/Morale roll for NPCs in order to continue on/not run away. But Referees should refrain from imposing any sort of fear or sanity rules upon Player Characters. Before long they will be acting in ways that the locals will consider insane anyway (professional adventurers do not act like normal civilized folks!), and it is but a cheap effect to try to simulate fear by rolling a die and saying, “You’re scared stiff!”


If you're actually interested in the game, you can get a copy of the player rules (in an art free version, which is great, because free, and not so great, because the art really lends to the atmosphere of the game), as well as the 2011 Referee Book (a new version is due soon I believe) from http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/

Just check on the right hand side of the page.
Varsovian
member, 1141 posts
Wed 26 Aug 2015
at 22:38
  • msg #5

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

Thanks!

So, if I understand correctly, it's a generic system used to publish creepy adventures etc.?

If so, I wonder why did they bother with creating a core rulebook at all? Couldn't they just publish adventures? The webpage mentions they are all compatible with other OSR games...
nauthiz
member, 384 posts
Wed 26 Aug 2015
at 23:08
  • msg #6

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

I am not familiar enough with the various OSR systems to call out whatever mechanical differences there may be.

However, much like both M&M 1st edition and 1st edition Spycraft were "OGL" games, I'm sure there's differences, but enough similarities to borrow bits and pieces to assemble whatever you want.

My first TT experience of LotFP was an adaptation of one of the adventures running under D&D 5th edition.  So really "compatibility" is a very broad definition.
NowhereMan
member, 19 posts
Thu 27 Aug 2015
at 11:49
  • msg #7

Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

From what I know about the OSR and DIY-DnD, the whole point is to amass a cobbled-together system out of the various pieces and parts from different similar systems and what you can make up on the fly to get exactly what your particular group wants to play.

LotFP tends to be one that gets mentioned a lot, especially since A Red and Pleasant Land (winner of four ENnie awards) was designed for it, but there are a bunch of them out there.
meschlum
member, 160 posts
Fri 28 Aug 2015
at 02:27
  • msg #8

Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

Varsovian:
Interesting! Thank you very much.

I see that the "atmosphere of disaster and doom" is mentioned. Does it really appear in the book? Are there any rules related to it, like in Call of Cthulhu?


The Summon spell.

Level 1 Magic User spell, so accessible to any half baked mage you happen to meet.

In order to successfully inflict a serious doom upon the world, just get a level 1 Magic User with Summon to wander to the top of the highest mountain you can find, with lots of chickens, and start casting.

You have a 65% chance to fail your initial save and summon Something Stranger Than Expected.

You then have a 5% chance of getting an Abstract Form.

The Abstract Form has a 10% chance of being World Under Water, in which case the oceans rise to a height of 50 feet above your mountain top, at a rate of 10' per Turn. After 1 day, that's 1,440 feet of water, so anything not a mountain or hill is below the waves - and after a week, water is everywhere.

So in all, each time you cast the spell, there is a 0.325% chance of the world ending. That's more than the chance of rolling two 20s in a row (0.25%).


We now assume that the mountaintop Magic user has somehow failed to drown the world. Yet. Let's move on to the next worst case.

The Magic User is summoning something, and wants it to be as dangerous as possible. He is, however, hungry and cheap and will therefore eat all the chickens rather than sacrifice them.

Level 1 Magic User gives a +1, 2 hit die creature (maximum at level 1) gives +2. A Great Margin for the summoned Thing is 6, so a double Great is 12.

Thing rolls 20: auto-double
Thing rolls 19: 95% chance of auto-double, 5% chance of tie
Thing rolls 18: 35% chance of double, 5% chance of tie
Thing rolls 17: 30% chance of double, 5% chance of tie
...

In case of a tie, there is a reroll but the Magic User uses a d12, so the creature's odds go up.

Thing rolls 19 or 20: auto-double
Thing rolls 18: 58.33% chance of double
Thing rolls 17: 50% chance of double
...

So ignoring ties, the creature has a 16.75% chance of getting a double. In which case, it then has a 5% chance of opening a gate that spawns a thousand or so horrors. The magic User is up in the mountains, so it'll take a while for them to hit civilization, but it's a nice source of Doom too!

So between the two issues above (and you can wreck the local kingdom by casting Summon Monster and getting a flood, even if it won't then go on to drown the world), you have a better than 1% chance of ending the game each time the spell is cast.


Do you feel lucky?
rogar308
member, 802 posts
Gaming is good!
Got RPOL in my soul
Fri 9 Oct 2015
at 19:56
  • msg #9

Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess: a silly question

I'm currently playing this game in a table top campaign. I give it an 'ok' to 'good' rating. As mentioned, it's another flavor of old school DND for which there seems to be a recent plethora 'new' old rules and systems. Not that, that is a bad thing as I started and grew up with the old school dnd, and still play and enjoy it. I think the less rules in general encourage the GM and players to be more imaginative but that's just my take.

LOTFP is mostly standard stuff though. The summon spell stands out as something that takes up numerous pages and no sane mage would bother casting. The spell lists are lean and some of the spells that you would think would be on the lists aren't there so probably some GM customization may be in order. Most of the heavy duty evocation spells aren't there either. So a sort of 'low power' character system. Classes are basic and magic items few. That said, the system is workable and any decent GM can roll with it as needed.

I don't think it is particularly 'Cthulhu' like and if that is something you're looking for then this system may disappoint. There are 'some' Cthulhu like monsters in the monster section and a good GM could probably whip something together but it would take some work.

As far as 'new' old style rule systems go the best one I've come across thus far is Blood & Treasure which has a really nice mix of old rules and new(er) rules. The only thing I don't like about B&T is the crossbow reloading rules but that's an easy thing to change.
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