Re: Stat Scaling in D&D and Pathfinder
In D&D 3.x, there is one skill that uses Constitution: Concentration, available to spellcasters only.
In Pathfinder, there are none.
So Constitution becomes the god stat, and only spellcasters can become tougher with training. Talk about unintended consequences.
If you have no ranks in a skill, your maximum roll is Attribute modifier + 20, which gives a 'natural' limit of 30 to any attribute (10 modifier + 20 roll = can't get any higher). With ranks, you can go to 33 + level, absent any added bonuses.
At CR 25, you get 1.6 million xp for an encounter, enough to level up quite a bit (and xp at higher CR must be even faster). The xp award is about halved for every 2 CR less, so you get the best xp payoff, on average, for max CR - 1 and max CR - 3 challenges. So with a +1 from a guidance cantrip, you want CR 20 (attribute 10) to 30 (attribute 30) (or more for even faster advancement).
With magic items granting skill bonuses, it's easy (if you have the money) to guarantee success at most skills. Even masterwork tools are helpful here.
The following is for Pathfinder.
Strength
Climb is where it's at. DCs go from 0 (steep slope) to 35 (slippery wall), so you have a simple training regimen ahead of you. A climbing kit gives a +2, so untrained climbers cap out at 30 strength (trained go to 35).
Dexterity
From Acrobatics, we learn that jumping had a DC equal to the distance covered, or doubled without an initial run. So you can get perfectly graded DCs up to DC 60 without bothering about creating a complex balancing challenge. Untrained jumpers get to Dex 30, trained climbers with access to magic have no real limit (expeditious retreat gives +30 move, so DCs up to 120).
Constitution
No skills use Constitution, so you're stuck with whatever you got at character creation. Be a human or half-orc.
Intelligence
Most Intelligence skills require training, but fortunately Craft does not. Better still, Composite bows have customizable DCs, from 15 to any number you'd like to name (just set the Strength bonus high enough). Still, it's extremely slow and expensive to work with. Who knew that attaching a solid cable to an iron bar was so time consuming and intellectually rewarding?
The other option is Knowledge. Untrained, it goes up to DC 10, so by repeatedly telling someone which god is worshipped in their church, and showing them the holy symbol, you can guarantee that they'll reach Intelligence 10.
Trained, you have a DC of 25 + Spell level to identify a spell that just targetted you, so a wizard who slowly and repeatedly casts a cantrip to turn you purple will raise your Intelligence to 25 at a blistering pace (thanks to high xp awards). Since you're trained, you have a +4 bonus at least, so you could reach Int 34 from exposure to spells.
Monsters give DC up to 40 (rare, CR 25 Tarrasque, ignoring demon lords), so there is a hard cap of 40 Intelligence, unless you count getting extra facts about a monster as higher CR, in which case there are no limits.
In any case, trained people can teach each other to reach stratospheric levels of Intelligence by just repeating facts about ancient dragons until they sink in. Great Wyrm Red Dragons have fire breath. Congratulations, you just got a few hundred thousand Intelligence xp! They have wings. Have more xp! They are red in color. Even more!
Wisdom
Perception is ideal. Put on a blindfold, and listen for someone walking nearby. That's DC 10. Then have the person walk 10 feet away. DC 11. Repeat at all convenient distances until your Wisdom is as high as you need it to be. Given adventurers are often ambushed, this is a skill you'd want to get anyway.
At a base DC 15, have people nearby whisper important facts about Great Wyrm Red Dragons, combining multiple forms of training!
Charisma
Perform has DCs going up to 30, so if you have the time you can eventually hit the limit. Disguise would be ideal (with a Hat of Disguise, it takes 1 round to make a new check), but no DCs are specified. If it's allowed, it's your path to nigh unlimited Charisma.
Diplomacy is an option, as making repeated requests can be used to ramp up the DC as high as you want, but failing checks tends to be problematic (at bit like with Bluff or Intimidate).
For Charisma up to 25, you can use the 'Push an Animal' option from Handle Animal, which can be used untrained. Insist that your dog fetch a stick often enough, and your Charisma will rise (quite fast, what with 1.6 million xp per success). If the animal is hurt, you can get to 27.
If you're trained, Use Magic Device allows you to do fairly well with scrolls. Get a pile of scrolls with cantrips on them and try to decipher them, for DC 25. Reading higher level scrolls is more epxensive, but gets you to DC 34. Using a Staff is DC 20 (important for starting characters!), and they can be recharged.
Intimidate has a DC of 10 + Hit Dice + Wisdom Modifier + 5 per previous attempt, so you can get fairly high if you're persistant. So a level 1 adventurer who has driven Wisdom as high as possible can provide any DC you need - for a limited number of attempts per hour, however.
So training Charisma is difficult, because you're either in adverserial conditions (where you can't try over and over until you get it right) or because there are few ways to train when your attribute is low.
The recommended by the book approach is therefore: get a trained dog, have it run until it's tired, and get it to fetch. DC 12 until you're a Charisma 12. Then find a friend and have a friendly match of insulting one another, stopping for an hour after a few attempts to reset the DC. This should get you in the 20s. Once you're at 20, get an untrained dog, and have it fetch until your Charisma is 27 - this is faster than using Indtimidate. From there, revert to Intimidate to get as high as you want, or get training in Use Magic Device, and buy an item that works with a different alignment (you have +13 from training plus charisma bonus). Practice using the item until your Charisma hits 30 (with occasional days of rest when you roll a 1) then Intimidate as high as you want with a friend who is working on Wisdom.
You could visit a scroll shop and try to read all the scrolls of level 9 spells. Don't bother using them, so you might get a discount. That gets Charisma 34, and anything more calls for attempts at Diplomacy on people who at best don't care about you. Slow and sometimes dangerous. Or try for a magic item that can be used only by level 20 casters, for DC 40 - this requires more ranks in Use Magic Device, though.
The slow but steady method is to Perform in gradually better ways until you hit Charisma 30, with a hiccup at 25: you get a +7 bonus from Charisma 25, but need +10 to have a chance at DC 30 rolls. Then you're down to Use Magic Device or risking your skin with Diplomacy, and Intimidating an ally.
If Disguise is allowed, get a training buddy who is working on Perception and a Hat of Disguise. Dress up each round as something new and increasingly implausible, and go from there. Faster than Intimidate, but with the same potentially unlimited growth.
In all, raising Charisma is slow but possible, and hard to do alone.
Limits
Strength: 30 (trained in Climb: 35)
Dexterity: 30 (60 with Acrobatics bonuses, more with magic and obstacles)
Constitution: 20 (18 at character creation +2 from race)
Intelligence: 30 (trained in Know: Arcana: 40 via Tarrasque factoids or more if more facts increase the DC) (infinite with enough time, money, and Craft (bowmaking) bonuses)
Wisdom: 30 (infinite with Perception bonuses)
Charisma: 30 (infinite with Intimidate bonuses, or possibly Disguise - requires an ally)
This message was last edited by the user at 21:04, Fri 12 June 2015.