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05:08, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Help with the dice roller?

Posted by Malk0lm
That Guy With The Face
member, 50 posts
I never forget a face...
Wait, who are you again?
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:37
  • msg #2

Re: Help with the dice roller?

The most popular route is to copy/paste your roll from the dice roller results at the bottom of your in-game post. The GM can check the dice roller log if he/she feels the need to verify.

If the need arises, you can make a secret roll (which can only be seen on the log by yourself and the GM) and copy/paste it as a private line format in your in-game post.
This message was last edited by the user at 03:39, Thu 16 Apr 2015.
lensman
member, 110 posts
Crestline, CA, -8 GMT
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:38
  • msg #3

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Simply copy the text of the roll and Paste it into a post in the correct thread.
Malk0lm
member, 2 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:47
  • msg #4

Re: Help with the dice roller?

But you could just roll the same thing 2-3 times and then copy the best one over?

I get that its a trust thing and honor system and all that but seems pretty prone to abuse. Am I mistaken here?
Undeadbob
member, 1868 posts
RPGA member #6004591
Just a little weird
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:49
  • msg #5

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Yes you are, as the dice rolls are logged onto the game itself. Each game has its own log and such. So the GM can check the dice log to see how many times you are rolling and such.

Edit: As the dice are rolled, they create a time and date stamp. So no worries about player cheating. Another practice is to put what you are rolling the dice for.
This message was last edited by the user at 03:51, Thu 16 Apr 2015.
That Guy With The Face
member, 51 posts
I never forget a face...
Wait, who are you again?
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:55
  • msg #6

Re: Help with the dice roller?

I recommend playing around with the dice roller a bit. I learned more from experimenting with the various options than reading about it.
willvr
member, 661 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 03:56
  • msg #7

Re: Help with the dice roller?

You need to trust your players; and vice versa. As Undeadbob states; you -can- check up on them; but if you mistrust them that much, I think there's something wrong with the group.
Malk0lm
member, 3 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:00
  • msg #8

Re: Help with the dice roller?

In reply to Undeadbob (msg # 5):

It's not so much about mistrust, I do trust the players. However, even with the time stamp, since the rolls can be done whenever, I'm not sure that I can tie any roll to any particular post outside of the memo or text.  Two rolls with the same memo could be done in any particular order.  I'm not sure that's important, but crossing the provenance like that at least gives me pause.

I feel it's inconvenient and potentially confusing to rely on copy and paste like that.

Does no one experience these frustrations or confusion from time to time when playing long running or complicated games?
lensman
member, 111 posts
Crestline, CA, -8 GMT
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:00
  • msg #9

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Malk0lm:
But you could just roll the same thing 2-3 times and then copy the best one over?

I get that its a trust thing and honor system and all that but seems pretty prone to abuse. Am I mistaken here?

You are mistaken.  Simple things like Init should be Public not Secret.  All player can see what and how many rolls generated.

In effect all players and GM are observers and can see what is being done,
Gaffer
member, 1271 posts
Ocoee FL
40 yrs of RPGs
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:04
  • msg #10

Re: Help with the dice roller?

I don't understand why anyone would violate their friends' trust by cheating on a die roll. Especially since the next time the GM uses the dice roller, the log will show all those cheating rolls.
willvr
member, 662 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:07
  • msg #11

Re: Help with the dice roller?

In reply to Gaffer (msg # 10):

... personally, I don't understand why someone would cheat in a game that's built on mutual trust and co-operation.
Malk0lm
member, 4 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:14
  • msg #12

Re: Help with the dice roller?

In reply to willvr (msg # 11):

I don't want to start an argument about trust. Sometimes people get confused, make mistakes, accidentally click a button twice or whatever.

What I am trying to determine is the best way to establish the chronological provenance of a series of posts and rolls.

If copy+paste is the answer that is well and good. I was curious if others have found a different procedure that works for them.
nauthiz
member, 331 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:16
  • msg #13

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Malk0lm:
It's not so much about mistrust, I do trust the players. However, even with the time stamp, since the rolls can be done whenever, I'm not sure that I can tie any roll to any particular post outside of the memo or text.  Two rolls with the same memo could be done in any particular order.  I'm not sure that's important, but crossing the provenance like that at least gives me pause.


Assuming you have your game's dice roller set so the rolls are public (you can set it as default so rolls are private and just the person rolling and the GM can see them) you'll end up generating something like this in the dice roller log (which is located below the dice roller interface when people click the "dice roller" link in a game).


12:47, Thu 14 Aug 2014: Tom Bronson rolled 5 using 1d6. Control roll 4+.
22:55, Wed 13 Aug 2014: Frank Reeve rolled 5 using 2d6-1. Control Roll, Crash Table 1.
22:48, Wed 13 Aug 2014: Frank Reeve rolled 1 using 1d6. Control Roll.
22:09, Tue 12 Aug 2014: Tom Bronson rolled 7 using 2d6. Heavy rocket.
20:11, Tue 12 Aug 2014: Luke Burbank rolled 4 using 1d6. Control Roll.
23:31, Mon 11 Aug 2014: Jake Clanton rolled 3 using 2d6. Ignition via optional fire rules (4-).
23:30, Mon 11 Aug 2014: Jake Clanton rolled 4 using 1d6. FT Damage.
23:29, Mon 11 Aug 2014: Jake Clanton rolled 8 using 2d6-1. Flamethrower.


It is up to the player to put the note at the end, saying what the roll is for.  In this instance things like "FT Damage" and "Control Roll" are notes inserted by the player.

It is then customary for players to copy & paste the line into the bottoms of their posts, sometimes in a specific color to make it stand out.

So a post in a game from the character Jake Clanton might look like:



Jake lined up and triggered his flamethrower.


23:30, Mon 11 Aug 2014: Jake Clanton rolled 4 using 1d6. FT Damage.
23:29, Mon 11 Aug 2014: Jake Clanton rolled 8 using 2d6-1. Flamethrower.




It's then pretty easy to just click over to the Dice Roller and see that Jake only rolled once to attack and once to check the damage for his Flamethrower.  Obviously if there's a bunch of the same rolls by Jake, then there's an issue.  But players have no way of erasing the dice roller log, and no way of making a roll and not having it be recorded.

So there's no way to really cheat without the GM and, if rolls are done publicly, the rest of the players noticing.

Is it as easy as coding in dice rolls into the post itself?  Maybe not, but it's the way things are set up so the user base has established certain methodologies and levels of trust to make it work.
Malk0lm
member, 5 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:21
  • msg #14

Re: Help with the dice roller?

In reply to nauthiz (msg # 13):

Thank you, this is very detailed.

So what is the purpose of the dice macro then if all it does is redirect you to the dice roller? You would then need to edit your post to copy in the dice that you rolled.
That Guy With The Face
member, 52 posts
I never forget a face...
Wait, who are you again?
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:25
  • msg #15

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Malk0lm:
In reply to nauthiz (msg # 13):

So what is the purpose of the dice macro then if all it does is redirect you to the dice roller? You would then need to edit your post to copy in the dice that you rolled.


I usually open a second tab for the dice roller in my web browser so I can write, roll, paste, and post all at once.
willvr
member, 663 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:27
  • msg #16

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Because it prepopulates fields. Helps if you're at work; or on the run, or just don't know all your modifiers at the top of your head; and don't want to have to look up your character sheet.
borderline_dnd
member, 335 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:45
  • msg #17

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Malk0lm:
So what is the purpose of the dice macro then ...


There is no dice macro as I understand it. You simply copy and paste the dice rolls
nauthiz
member, 332 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 04:49
  • msg #18

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Believe the reference is to the "Other Options" on this page /help/?t=help&page=diceroller

Which allow for a link formatted to suit specific rolls by automatically setting the dice roller to certain settings.
Jarodemo
member, 792 posts
My hovercraft
is full of eels
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 05:23
  • msg #19

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Players who cheat should remember that the GM has a FUDGE DICE ROLL option which means the GM can tweak the result and the player will never know...!

Not used it myself, but always an option! :)
Tileira
member, 503 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 08:57
  • msg #20

Re: Help with the dice roller?

In reply to nauthiz (msg # 18):

Oh, I didn't know we could that. It makes sense for GMs to use as a "roll this".
To be honest I use simpler systems (ie, not d20) so I wouldn't need it so much, but I can see it would be useful for the crunchier games.
Ameena
member, 82 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 15:00
  • msg #21

Re: Help with the dice roller?

I don't even use the automated roller if I don't have to, I have actual dice which I trust a lot more than some computer algorithm ;). But the games in which I use actual dice are the ones in which I play with people I've already known for ages so there is no trust issue. In the game I'm GMing I'm fine with people rolling their own dice as well, if they want to, but am not enforcing any particular method.
Shiv
member, 416 posts
Thu 16 Apr 2015
at 15:23
  • msg #22

Re: Help with the dice roller?


The only beef I have with the dice roller is that the log scrolls up instead of down.  It makes putting the rolls into a post a bit of a chore.
jase
admin, 3434 posts
Cogito, ergo procuro.
Carpe stultus!
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 04:18
  • msg #23

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Malk0lm:
I get that its a trust thing and honor system and all that but seems pretty prone to abuse.

There are two main reasons that the dice roller isn't integrated directly into the message system.  One is the complexity of the dice roller means that though a simple 1d20+6 roll is obviously easy, rolling "4d6 dropping the lowest dice, rerolling max, rerolling 1s and having unique dice" is rather crazy to try and denote in a [roll] section.  I haven't even contemplated what some of the systems might be like.

The other reason, and this relates more to your point, is the security of rolls.  All rolls here are tracked in the dice roller log, so it's pretty hard to manipulate or hide rolls (if not impossible). Yes it requires the GM to cross-check rolls, but that's pretty easy by opening the dice roller in a new tab/window and viewing the rolls.  The recent ones are at the top so the relevant ones are easy to spot -- no honour system needed!

There's also the "rolls" link next to the character name which will show the rolls for that character in a new window, and for an added bonus it highlights the rolls that were made around the same time as the post!

I don't know which PbP forum you were on before, but by contrast I've found inline rolls easy to hack.  The easiest of which is to edit the message and delete out the inline roll, leaving no trace of it.

I do aim to implement inline rolls eventually, or something like it, but the complexity of the dice roller makes it a difficult thing to easily present to users (foiled by the power of the roller!), plus I need to figure a way that works well and can't be manipulated.
willvr
member, 668 posts
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 04:24
  • msg #24

Re: Help with the dice roller?

Actually, I know the original poster said it's not a trust thing; but the only other PbP forum I go to on any kind of regular basis; DMs make all the rolls. Whether it's losing track of stuff; or you don't trust your players, you could arguably do the same for games you run here.

I think to let players make the rolls, and keep it fairly hard for them to cheat; this one is the best I've come across.
Sithraider
member, 128 posts
The dead, they walk!
16 in the clip...
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 05:25
  • msg #25

Re: Help with the dice roller?

I've used invisible castle for rolls in games, in line rollers and (of course) this sites die roller. By far I like this one the most. For all of the reasons Jase said above. I especially like being able to set the default dice and the logger.
Skald
moderator, 622 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Fri 17 Apr 2015
at 06:57
  • msg #26

Re: Help with the dice roller?

And some of us want the game mechanics hidden and don't want inline dice rolls in their posts ! ;>
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