So, as I'm certain we're all aware, RPoL is a site devoted to hosting the playing and enjoyment of RPGs.

I was scrolling through DriveThruRPG.com recently, when I came across a few...Interesting titles, and I had to wonder- at what point does a game lose the ability to call itself an RPG? At what point does it become just another party game?

For example, there's the game Cookie Jar. Players take turns accusing one another of a "crime", and they go around the room accusing one another and forming alibis, continually shifting blame until one player winds up accepting the guilt of the crime. The game uses a large amount of dice, dice which play a fairly important role in game play- and some role play does have to be involved in the playing of the game.

Cookie Jar is, in and of itself, a good game. But I have to wonder at what point one would draw the line and say: "Sorry, this site is for RPGs only."

There are probably better examples than Cookie Jar. It was just one I found that made me think. You can find a lot of weird experimental games out there, and they're all fairly cool. I just wanted to hear other opinions:

What do you think should be the extent of what games are permitted on RPoL, or considered as RPGs at all?

I think those are two different questions.

I don't think there should be a hard and fast rule of "this game is allowed here" "this game isn't" - because I think virtually anything -can- be done as an RPG. Yes, even games like Monopoly. (Though board games are pretty damned hard to play here I feel.)

But, considered RPGs? Well, I think it's if you don't really need to stretch very far to think of it as an RPing game. Going back to Monopoly - you really need to stretch to think of it as RPing.

Considering that we allow board games, chess games, etc... I dont think we would ever say that.  As long as it's a game, and played on site, I'd say we are happy to host it.

My friends and I played VTM with a Monopoly set as the city. It was a blast. Lots of construction site sabotage. Good times.

I've also played a Mafia game here. That's more of a party game than an RP. It was fun.

I think it's an enjoyable gray-line area.  It's very fuzzy.

I wish I could give you a quick and definitive answer, so here goes: If you play a game wherein you take on the 'role' of someone other than yourself in a make-believe (even if based upon real events) environment: then you have yourself a roleplaying game (RPG).

This, however; leaves a LOT of room for possibility.  Suddenly even candyland is an RPG.  To this end, I will say that there are different "matriculations" and "niches" of RPG-ness.

One dreaded example: WoW (World of Warcraft).  I will never consider this game an RPG, even though it is clearly sold as an MMORPG.  To me, you are in a third-person action cartoon.  However, you are indeed 'taking on the role' of 'someone other than yourself' in a 'make-believe' environment.  So, yes it's unfortunately fitting into the definition.

After that, there's elitism.  Some people will say that unless you completely abandon the dice and go with only your own imagination: it's not 'true' role playing.  Whatever that means.

Some want the dice for randomness that is out of their own control.  On and on and on.

In short: If you can make it into something stimulating of the creativity and meets the criteria above: you've got a winner.

That's a good definition GamerHandle.

I would say that a board game was easier to define. A board game (typically) has a definitive starting and ending point that is (almost) always the same. The goals are clearly defined and the entirety of the game takes place within strict boundaries.

RPG, heck I tease my coworkers (they're anti-roleplayers) about how Call of Duty is an RPG. to which they always say "no way." I just ask what level their favorite gun is and they usually stop talking.

At any rate, it's an interesting topic for sure. Thanks for posing the question.

Are you guys playing D&D?  Can I be a Keebler Elf?  ;)

It's kind of one of those mutable terms; and somewhat of a circular discussion.  An opinion, by definition, cannot be "wrong" - you just might not agree.  :D

Oh man, if I ever play D&D again, my elf is definitely baking cookies -- magic cookies.

I think GamerHandle has the simplest definition and it's very legitimate. I'd go so far as to say it's an RPG even if your character is based on yourself (which we used to do with Morrow Project).

The old murder mystery-dinner party games are definitely RPGs (and, yes, much more so than MMORPGs, of which Call of Duty is definitely one). In fact, they are early LARPs.

Are You a Were Wolf? and Mafia are borderline to me, but I usually see them classed as LARPs at cons. It sounds like Cookie Jar would be classified the same. Fiasco is 'more' of an RPG because you create and play a character different than yourself.

My daughter has run a very popular Call of Cthulhu game at Origins based on the board game Clue.
This message was last edited by the user at 05:45, Thu 26 Feb 2015.

I played a very elegant "Clue of Cthulhu" game back at Con of the North about 15 years ago. One of the best Board Game/RPG crossovers I've ever played.

Sadly my own personal definition is if you have to move pieces around on a board, using a random number generator, is where I turn things around. Using a figure or piece to represent location is one thing, not begin able to run fast enough because of a series of bad 1's on a hex map is another.

Far to often I see people playing some new versions of D&D and my first thought, based on what I see, is that they are playing a board game.

<quote GamerHandle>it's not 'true' role playing.  Whatever that means.</quute>

I think it's a fair rule that once you throw the word 'true' into just about anything you're being overly semantic (and likely a couple of other words that would be edited into baked goods if I typed them).

Who cares, as long as everyone agrees on the rules, and is having fun?  Hopefully without risk to life though, i.e. people running around a city with items that look like guns, and then are surprised when the police think they are a threat.

In reply to GamerHandle (msg # 5):

Even WoW could be turned into a more typical RPG...use the races and character types and the setting, but change the nature of the character objectives, and suddenly, it's a totally different gaming experience.  Granted, you can't play it the same way, because you don't have the means to reprogram the game, but that doesn't mean you can't take all the set dressing and relocate it to tabletop or PbP.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to create a hard-and-fast definition for RPG because, as has been mentioned, 'role-playing' doesn't mean the same thing to everybody...short of the gross generalization that you are putting yourself into an imagined situation where you are playing someone else (or yourself in an imagined setting).  And, as the OP mentioned (indeed, the very cause for the question we're discussing), there is a dizzying array of variations on how to make a game.

Even a straight-up board game CAN be played to be a role-play...if the players all adopt a specific persona that becomes an elementof the gameplay, Monopoly can enter RPG territory.  It's not the game itself, so much as how you play it.  I know there are purists that would debate that, but...well...all it is, is a home-brew game that's borrowing extensively from existing materials.

In the board game life, we often role played the job, wife, kids and events.

As far as WoW and most other games go, the game gives the possibility, but it is up to the people playing to decide how they play.

For example way back when I did play WoW and was in a guild there would be times when we would get together at the pub and socialize in character and even have a marriage ceremony and celebration for guild members.

You could have what is called an RPG, something like D&D and Pathfinder, where people play things like a dungeon crawl out as a strategy tabletop miniatures war game never putting themselves into the role of any of the miniatures or even the field general, they are just playing a game.