I might not be the only one that feels this way, but there should be a limit to how many games you can have advertized at once on the "Players wanted" forum.

1) Your not being honest with yourself if you think you can give your full attention to more then 3 games as a DM

2) If the game hasnt kicked off in over 2 years, It might be time to scrap it, its not healthy to dwell on such things that it becomes routine.

3) Its not fair to the other people on the forum who have to wait a week to advertize there game on the front page again, after you single handedly bumped it to the 2-3 page


Im not attacking another player with this short observation, Im asking if there could be a change to the formula to optimize the success of finding players for games and possibly refreshing the stagnant water that certain individuals are trying to sell.

Not to mention it hurts your chances. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but there has been at least one occasion in my pretty limited time here (about 90 days I think), that I've thought something like, "Oh hey, that looks pretty awesome. Wait a minute... Is this guy advertising for the two games above and below this as well? Never mind."

There is a limit on how many games you can advertise in a single day.

1) A GM is free to decide how many games they can handle.

2) Some games are continuously looking for players.  They may be running quite nicely, but are set up in such a way that they constantly seek fresh blood.

3) In order to "single handedly" bump your ad to page 2 or 3, an individual user would need to be bumping 25-50 separate game ads in a single day.  Since the limit is three separate ads bumped or created in a single 24 hour period, that would not be possible.

I am very much for everything BBR has posted - not only are these things the way things are... but it makes a lot of sense.  Yes, it is annoying to see your games pushed down to the second page within a few hours; but, I've never seen it even remotely being a single individual.  I've seen one person, I'm pretty sure it's the person that has tipped your annoyance there, Andrew Wilson; however, even so, many people DO indeed read the second or third page.  More likely: they are searching for the system they want to see.

I think some people are perfectly capable of running 4+ games just fine. Also depends upon the nature of the 'game'.  Some are not exactly games, simply discussion zones for certain very finite topics (such as when there was a 'game' for NPC creation - not advertising anything specifically here... just proffering an example.)

I'm pretty sure that NO GM is truly giving their full attention to their games...this is a hobby, Real Life demands a lot more attention than I'll ever be ready to devote to gaming...

And it's entirely possible that someone else's one-fifth effort is more solid than my solo effort...there are a lot of factors that impact how good a game is, the relative amount of focus on the GM's part is pretty low on that list.

For an experienced GM, running games is like spinning plates on sticks.

If they're running smoothly with plenty of player interaction, a GM can get away with little more than reading for a while, but when they wobble, they need a little more attention.

The important factor isn't how many games you're running, but how many are wobbling, how severely they're wobbling, and how much attention you can give them - none of which is evident to an outside observer.

As BBR says, the only person who can decide how many is too many, is the GM.

However, we're all tempted to add one more plate, especially when they're all running smoothly and we have time on our hands...

Since games GM is running and games deleted are posted with the request for players, we players have fair warning.

In reply to OceanLake (msg # 7):

The downside to that assumption, is when a game goes from rpol to facebook or the such. Ive had games go on for 2 years that only have like 90 posts in the actual game. Player just asks if it can be moved to skype or some other asynchronous chat to be played faster.

Thanks for pointing that out.

In reply to Andrew Wilson (msg # 8):

If the game's moved to FB or Skype, then it shouldn't still be listed on RPOL...it's against the TOU to use RPOL for storing information on games that aren't being run on RPOL.  Yes, you can use FB/Skype/chats to facilitate the game's progress (I'm in a game that used to do that, a lot...two or three characters would be off doing their own thing, they'd all go to a chatroom to play it out, and the GM would edit the whole thing into a post on the IC thread).

But if you're not still posting stuff to the game, technically, you should get rid of it...which would add to the deleted games entry, yes, but it wouldn't give potential players a misleading notion that you've had a game with only 90 posts (or whatever) floating around for three years (or however long).  Better a deleted game than an existing game that shows little or no progress to an outsider...

I run two games that are fairly successful, play in a third, hold down a demanding job, referee soccer (outdoor and indoor), teach Tae Kwon Do, take a daily 3 mile walk with the wife, and stay involved in my two teenagers' lives. I could easily handle running another game in the place of any one of those other activities. Without knowing the GM's lifestyle, you cannot judge how many games he/she can handle. I also never have a problem finding new players when I need them. One day on page one gives me enough RTJs to start two new parties. (Results my vary, depending on genre and rule set).

That being said, seeing the same name pop up with several games on a nearly daily basis does give me pause. And will, for right or wrong, influence my opinions.

In reply to Westwind (msg # 11):

I think an interesting side question is: Does seeing a specific GM readvertise multiple games every week make you more likely or less likely to want to join? For me it is the latter. If I see the same game bumped week after week it smacks of desperation and that the game just won't be any good. This may indeed be a wrong assumption, but one that I jump to anyway.

Alas, this is a Catch-22 situation. It may be true enough for games like D&D/PF, where there are about ten million applicants for every vacancy, but for less popular genres/rulesets, it doesn't hold water.

A couple of players dropping out with RL issues can lead to an ad, which fails to recruit because it's an obscure ruleset, leading to another ad which not only fails to recruit, but also puts off potential players because 'there was an ad out for this last week, it must be rubbish.'

What's a poor GM to do?

and don't say 'play Pathfinder'... :(

In reply to icosahedron152 (msg # 13):

:)

I was more referring to the games that are advertised week after week after week with nothing more than the word 'bump' appearing at the bottom of the post.

I appreciate that more specific/obscure systems will have more trouble finding players.

I recently made a IC check to see if there was interest in a game. So far very few replies. BUT I am wondering if anyone is reading it at all. Perhaps several people have taken a look but maybe this type of game doesn't interest them, but then again maybe no one has even looked at it.

I think a counter of some kind to see how many people read the thread would be nice. I could get a gauge on if there is no interest or some interest.

I know this doesn't mean they were going to sign up but so type of tool to gauge interest on a topic would help.

There has been all this chat about players posting multiple times and like clock work every week in the wanted threads. (it troubles me as well) BUT maybe if they saw no hits on the counter for 2/3/4 weeks he can see that there is no interest in his game.

That could be a good way to stop the activities and it can be used by others to see who many are reading the info posted, but do not reply.

In reply to Lord Caladin (msg # 15):

I doubt that would happen, the rpol community hates rating systems of any kind.

As for checking in on a thread, well new people are joining everyday. If a GM is willing to do the advertisement work, no reason not to let them do it.

In reply to Lord Caladin (msg # 15):

The nature of who's looking at/for games is incredibly fluid on RPOL.  One of the games I'm in routinely advertises for new players...at one point, I think there were only about three of us who were actively playing.  And we will go months at a time without anyone even looking twice, it seems...

And then, within a couple of weeks, we'll get four or five new players.  That doesn't count the ones who expressed initial interest but couldn't come up with a concept the GM felt would work with the game.

In reply to facemaker329 (msg # 18):

So true! I advertised for a d6 Star Wars game once upon a time and got something like four or five RTj's. And a friend of mine advertised one two or three weeks later and got a couple dozen.

Some of that might be superior game-writing skills.

But it's all over the place.

In reply to Undeadbob (msg # 16):

I don't think LordC is looking for a rating system, just an indicator of how often the post has been viewed. That's not a bad idea for certain forums, like Wanted-GM, Wanted-Players, and GPIaA.

You are assuming that we want to stop the activity.  We don't.

It is not against the rules of the Wanted - Players forum to advertise a game, bumping the ad thread once per week, for as many weeks, months, or even years, as the GM feels he needs to.  Nor is there any requirement to compose a lengthy post, if there is no further information to add.

A counter on public forum threads is not possible, since people do not log in to the forums.  They don't even need to be logged in to the site to read those threads.  Also note that, if a counter were possible, other users would probably be blocked from seeing how often a GM's ad was looked at anyway because, frankly, it's none of their business.
This message was last edited by the user at 16:57, Wed 28 Jan 2015.

I don't think you can moderate or legislate the silliness out of the Wanted - Players section and remain objective and fair.  Those that run this site certainly recognize and understand that and I for one applaud them for that.  The last thing anyone wants is arbitrary moderation of the rules.  That leads to bad, bad things.

However, I do believe that the GMs that do continually post multiple games over and over again only hurt themselves.  At this point I only need to see certain names and I immediately read right past them.  Even if one of their new games isn't a multi-listing they have become "background noise" in my mind.  That's my take.

Speaking as one who ... out of habit ... often clicks on the top post in both forums to clear the 'red' out several times a day, I doubt that knowing how many times an ad has been viewed would help.

My 'viewing' of it lasts about .01 seconds, and I didn't read a word of the ad that happened to be in the top spot.

Given how many people admit that they're obsessive about having red on their sticky list, I doubt that I'm alone in doing this.
This message was last edited by the user at 17:08, Wed 28 Jan 2015.

In reply to Shannara (msg # 23):

I'm totally one of these people. I clear the red dozens of times a day.

EDIT: Just did it again just now.
This message was last edited by the user at 17:14, Wed 28 Jan 2015.

In reply to truemane (msg # 24):

Me too.  I can't stand having any messages marked as not read.

I clear the Red too.  Which brings up another complaint about multiple posters: sometimes I catch them mid-posting and have to clear my Red 2 or 3 times in 2 minutes!

In reply to Gaffer (msg # 20):

That's is correct, a simple counter maybe.

As noted in my last post, such a counter is not feasible.

Poor choice of wording (stop the activity), What I meant is the person putting up the request can see if there is interest and maybe tell how much. They can see if its worth their time to continue.

As I appreciate the all of the Mods. efforts to keep privacy, I don't see how a counter or some type of indicator invades that privacy. And (I'm not a programmer) I think it could be hidden so only the 'author' can see it.

Also I have seen a few things that work very well on other sites that have pbp games, which have counters for viewing hits, and lists if anyone has looked at your page in the last 5 minutes, day and so on, and other features that help the owner of the game control his environment. Not the same environment as here, which is why I game here, JUST saying these features are out there.

If its viewed as a privacy issue I understood, .... and much earlier I defended those that posted weekly, because I played in those games and know the type of games they are running.

And lastly with regards to it's none of their business, I can agree - BUT I wouldn't mind seeing who is interested in what games if I'm the Arthur (or maybe not :), ... again a gauge/tool to see if that's something I may want to play or GM.

As a conversation in a chat forum, my comments are just a thought not a request.

In reply to Shiv (msg # 22):

I too do the same.

Last note for today,

About clearing the red I use 'Mark all as Read'. The comment I made would be more about if someone opened the page, I personal wouldn't mind knowing if it was.

I didn't think members just opened the page as a way to clear the red. That's interesting info, that makes me think more about my comments.

Opening the page was the standard method before the "mark all as read" option was added (Version 1.9.54 - March 2013), so for a lot of people that is still the way they automatically clear the red lights.

A counter is certainly possible and doesn't need to distinguish between someone logged in or not (I believe the counter would be based on the server getting a request for the page, which would be independent of who sent the request, but just a guess on my part) and I've seen counters elsewhere.

It would be helpful, as no matter how good the opening post is, it is no good if the title isn't getting people interested enough to look at the thread at all. A counter helps gauge whether people are ignoring the title, or ignoring the opening post. If no one is opening the thread, then I know that maybe I just need to rename the thread to attract more attention, but if lots of people are opening the thread, but not posting, then I know that they are not interested in my proposed game.

The title is the single most important piece of advertisement. Knowing when I'm messing that part up would be very helpful.

I guess I disagree on that point.  When I look at the Players Wanted thread, I usually just scroll the game system list.  Only if a game is a system I like will I bother to look at the title.  And it's usually the game description and what they are looking for that determines my interest, not the specific title.

That's a lot of clicking though. When I just open one item, it clears the indicator for that item only, not for the whole list.

Yes, gladiusdei, I look at systems first. I never open anything in systems I don't want to play or freeform. If it's a favorite system -- Call/Trail of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, I proceed to genre. If I'm still interested I open it to read the description.

In reply to Gaffer (msg # 35):

Opening the first item in the list will clear the red light off the main menu, which is what a lot of people are interested in doing - they don't care if the rest of the threads are marked unread, as long as that red number isn't ruining the feng shui of the main menu.  So just one click to clear the red light.

In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 33):

I disagree on the potential usefulness of a counter.  It doesn't actually matter how many people look at the thread, all that matters is how many send an RtJ.  A thousand people reading the thread is worth nothing, if none of them apply to the game.

And the counter will not tell you whether they didn't apply because of your mass typos and poor grammar, or if the system is unpopular, or the game concept did not grab their attention, or if they don't like your GMing style (or were just opening the thread to clear the marker).
This message was last edited by the user at 20:29, Wed 28 Jan 2015.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 36):

That often doesn't work for me. Odd.

Might be a cookies thing.

Doesn't an Interest Check post in the Game Proposals, Input and Advice thread already act as a counter of sorts?

As Shannara mentioned a counter may lead to "false positives" or perhaps an idea about mild curiosity, but not real interest while a post in the Game Proposals, Input and Advice thread gives people the option to leave input, ask pertinent questions, or perhaps offer advice.  Anyone that leaves an answering post tells you more about interest than a simple "32 people looked at this post".

The Game Proposals thread is where I think this would be most useful. A lot of games I see there don't have the system decided yet, and often wait to see what the players think before picking one.

Unlike the Players wanted section, Game proposals doesn't have a lot of preset information to search by. The proposed games might not be of a certain genre, system, or anything else that someone searching for games might look through. So in game proposals section, how do people decide whether to read a thread or not, by the title.

Personally I wouldn't see a counter as measuring interest, but rather it measures the opposite. It is a means to figure out that your proposal/advertisement is not grabbing their interest, which is a very important thing to know, even if you don't know why they aren't interested.

It would be helpful to know that if you haven't got any views, that might be why no one is responding to it, thus no need to give up hope on the concept just yet as no one has really seen the concept, try some patience first, then after a week, just either try changing the title if in the Game proposal section, or perhaps go make a thread on the Game proposal section asking for advice about it, so folks can tell you why they think no one is looking at it (such as "it is a rare system" "it is an uncommon genre" etc).

On the other hand, if you have lots of views but no one is indicating interest, that means you are likely better off dropping it altogether and trying some other concept.

Basically, if no one has seen your idea, then you need to go find people to look at it. If people have seen it, but give no word, then that says something about your concept.

In reply to Shiv (msg # 40):

I think the idea is to see how many people might be looking at the post but not responding.Or looking at a P-W ad and not RTJing.

In reply to Gaffer (msg # 42):

That is my understanding, and the piece of info I have often wanted to know.

That seems to be a singularly self-limiting practice. In fact it never occurred to me that anyone would do that. Explains some of the lack of interest in my 'less usual' games, I suppose.

Each to his/her own, of course, but I take a look at anything and everything if I'm looking for a game. Always seeking new and interesting experiences. The way I see it, if I hadn't taken a chance on something new, I would never have got into gaming at all - and look at the fun I got out of that gamble...

What I don't open, though, are ads that simply say 'looking for players' or some such. I figure if GMs can't be bothered to say what their game is about, what does that suggest about their inventiveness and dedication in-game?

And I must admit to a (very short) blacklist of genres/rulesets/GMs that just don't interest me - 'been there, done that, didn't like it' types.

your last sentence is my view of games like freeform and a few other rule sets.  So it's not as different from yours as you think.

In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 41):

That was kind of what I was thinking :)

I had taken it for granted that people will review the game system first, the GM name second, and the title last. That's always how I've looked for games.

Only if one is a master gamer that loves nearly all systems, or really wants to learn all systems, or is absolutely desperate for a specific concept will they look at the titles before the other information.

Or if they are trying to kill some time.


System is king. You could name your game "Game Name" and get a dozen or more applications as long as the system is popular and you illustrate a basic grasp of grammar and the rules in your ad.
This message was last edited by the user at 01:07, Thu 29 Jan 2015.

This is something that has been bugging me. I clicked that "accept cookies from rpol" when I joined up ten years ago. I assumed I would get my cookies at some point, but I have never got them,  so will their ever be cookies? Does mail just take a really long time from Australia? Will I never get my cookies, or is it one of those "when we get cookies, you get cookies" situations?

The rats may have eaten the cookies while it was in route via cargo ship.

And for the record, I think that I like the button to remove the red more than I actually read any of the threads. But that's just me
This message was last edited by the user at 01:38, Thu 29 Jan 2015.

When I look through WP, I look first at systems.  If I see one that I know (and like), I'll look at the game (unless the headline is so jaw-droppingly uninspiring that it turns me off before I even read the game info...which doesn't happen often, but has happened.)

If I don't see any systems that catch my eye, then I'll look at the headlines, and see if anything catches my eye.  There are a few systems that, even with a catchy headline, I'll skip, just for the fact that what I know (or have heard) of that system means it's going to be an unwieldy rules-fest (I prefer my games rules-light).  If a headline catches my attention and the system doesn't turn me off, then I'll look at the ad.

I rarely look at GM names...unless it's a GM that I'm familiar with and really anticipate playing with (very short list).  I can only think of one GM (well, two, now) that I'd put on any sort of 'black list', but since I forgot to make note of their names, I've forgotten who they are, I'd have to recognize them by the way they're advertising their game.

With regards to a hypothetical counter--the only thing such a thing would tell me is that I've got a catchy headline.  It's not going to tell me if I'm getting no RTJs because of the system I chose, or if the style I used to write up my game info is off-putting, or if my setting is too obscure or over-the-top or in some other way turning off prospective players.  Knowing that people aren't looking at your ad doesn't help much, unless you know why they aren't looking, and there's not really any method for assessing that.  It could be anything from choosing an out-of-favor system to a poorly-written headline to a case of really bad timing (and everyone who'd be interested in your game is currently full-up on their list of games and not looking at ANY ads at the moment.)

Lol, looks like I'm the oddfish (again) for having a small blacklist rather than a small whitelist. <shrug> Never mind, been there more times than I can count. :)

Hmm. Yes, some people don't have to work for a living.

I just feel that I'm here to play fun RPGs, rather than being here to play X&Y. <Wanders off to watch the tumbleweeds drifting by.>

As the Internet was invented by an Englishman can we please refer to cookies as biscuits from now on... thank you for your cooperation. :)

In reply to Jarodemo (msg # 52):

I didn't know Al Gore is English.

I think everyone is here to play fun RPG's. And for some people, that does mean X&Y and for some people that means NOT X&Y and for most people it's some combination thereof.

I know lots of players who don't play freeform. Ever. And lots who only play freeform. I generally don't have the time to learn new systems willy-nilly, so any game that's a system I don't know I generally pass on.

With some exceptions, of course.

I think my experience mirrors others that I scroll through systems first, then titles. I check the GM names, but I pay way more attention to the ad itself.

I look at systems, then category, then ad titles, then GM name as an after thought because I don't remember that many.
But when it comes to systems, so long as it's not D&D/Pathfinder, GURPS or "Unknown" I'm not fussy.

If the ad title is misspelled or full of ~*~Exciting! Punk!tuation!~*~ I open the ad dubiously, but less so than "looking for players please".

After that it's a question of how well the ad persuades me I want to play with this GM.

In reply to truemane (msg # 54):

X&Y 2e was okay, after 3.2e it started to slide downhill.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 56):

You should switch to XY-Z. The 1.7 errata just came out to fix the class balance issues for healers and provide further confusion clarification on magical items.
This message was last edited by the user at 15:31, Thu 29 Jan 2015.

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 56):

Sorry, I'm a diehard fan of X&Y-Classic.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, so long as you don't mind being wrong.

In reply to truemane (msg # 58):

I don't mind being wrong, because it's such a rare event when it happens.  :)

Does X&Y-Classic use 'chits' and graph? lol JK

By the way for you young ins, that blue box original X&Y game :)

And if that went up in Players Wanted I think you may get some replies to the game requests, .... Did I say that out loud.
This message was last edited by the user at 16:34, Thu 29 Jan 2015.