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23:41, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Posted by Andrew Wilson
Andrew Wilson
member, 564 posts
Scary? My mask is to keep
your viscera off my face
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 09:38
  • msg #1

Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Any tips community?

I was reading the DnD 5E DMG on how to build worlds and It solved my #1 problem, and thats thinking on the small scale.

I have no idea on how I can tie a small idea that launches a fun adventure into a larger picture without overshadowing there accomplishments or snowballing them into the finale I have in mind.

I usually end up planning a very well done initial hook in a setting thats just vague enough to be fun without being tied down to lore. I also build a very strong finale that essentially wraps up a long campaigns, leaving the players satisfied enough that they feel accomplished.

Im horrible at writing for the middle ground.
Lancebreaker
member, 130 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 09:55
  • msg #2

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

It sounds like two different questions.  On the one hand you are asking about world building.  I have been building my homebrew world for the better part of 15 years, and I don't think I'm anywhere near complete yet.  On the other hand you are asking about campaign arcs, which to me seem like a separate issue all together.

If we are talking about campaign/adventure arcs, which I think we are, then I think it is important to do several things.  Have a running theme.  If you know your endgame involves the undead, then try starting your adventurers dealing with the undead in some seemingly trivial manner.  Midway through the arc you can then reveal how the initial adventure tied into the larger plot leading towards the end.

Threads are important for continuity.  You can pick up threads, and drop them, as you get a feel for what is important and what the game needs, but try and carry several strong threads through from early on all the way into the late stages.  A thread could be a story or a legend about which the party gets more and more information, a recurring NPC which has more parts to play than it seems on first impression.  Whatever you can include to add continuity, do it.

Minor arcs.  Much like the major arc, but much smaller in scale, introduce an arc, follow it through to completion, then develop another one.  Alternatively you can have multiple arcs running at the same time, picking up and completing them at different intervals.  Importantly, if you know what your endgame is, try and make these resolutions learning points for the players and their characters.

By the time you get to the end of your game you should have a strong theme, committed and engaged players, and a party that is properly prepared for their final challenge.

Of course it is almost 2AM here, so there is no telling if what I just wrote even makes any sense...
Tileira
member, 460 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 11:07
  • msg #3

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Use your players.

You have your start and end points. Go back the character backgrounds, motivations, personalities of the PCs. Is there anything in there which is personal to them you can use? It doesn't have to directly hook to the main plot, but make notes of each idea which is suggested and then see if there is a way to hook some of those thoughts together.

Don't populate your game with throw-away NPCs. NPCs are a keystone in world-building. Keep some favourites on one side with their own agendas. Is it someone who might approach the PCs to further their own interests the next time their paths cross? Is it someone who the party has antagonised or formed a bond of trust with? Is the person who sent them up the mountain pass which turned into a dangerous adventure working with the villain to get them killed or subtly trying to send more capable people to face a threat he hasn't the resources to counter?

You don't have to make everything significant, but take a look at what could be made significant and store things up. If a PC stops to talk to an NPC too long, make it into a thing. If the PCs do something which could leave a lasting impression behind them, figure out how the place changes after they leave in case they ever go back that way.
Merevel
member, 945 posts
Gaming :-)
Very unlucky
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 12:35
  • msg #4

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

This probably should go without saying, but after a month or two review your materials. I used to be a huge insomniac, going months at a time with under an hour of sleep a night. I miss the creativity I had. One day I was going through my old campaign notes, and I found a prestige class for a type of knight. Ok, find and dandy, then I read it was from pirates... and had nothing built into it to reflect it.

Hey it was a world made based on my dreams what can I say lol?
ArdentGamer
member, 13 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 17:16
  • msg #5

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Just to chip in my own two cents here.

A trick I have used quite a lot here is to throw in to or 3 minor things that may or may not seem related in your eary adventures, see which the players run with and are most interested in and then use that as the basis for an adventure in the mid levels, tied into your ending or not.
GamerHandle
member, 622 posts
Umm.. yep.
So, there's this door...
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 17:23
  • msg #6

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Ripples.

Small idea -> Larger picture?

"Everything fits - even if it doesn't."  That is my guiding phrase (both to myself and my players.)

If the PCs solve one small village's Ogre problem - this changes how the world works in the towns in every direction.  If the PCs then go East and solve the larger town's problem (after tackling the small village) - then guess what; it ripples onto everything else.

Example:

1) In Village A, the player's kill-off the marauding Ogre that was keeping the town away from trade; sounds well and good right?  Not quite..

2) As the PCs go to Town B, they try to deal with the splinter of the Thieves' Guild which is harassing and conducting a racket on the merchants: well if the PCs try to interfere, the Thieves and merchants both will realize that Village A is now open to trade again.  So they BOTH setup shop.  Do the PCs successfully cut off ALL the thieves?  If not - (because half a dozen escaped the initial raid) they are now in the village and causing mayhem.

3) The PCs, having deal with the mafia-life thieves; move on to a dungeon adventure wherein they encounter a necromancer.  Well, the Necromancer wanted to try and harm Town B: but the Necro could not because the Priests were there stopping both him and trying to keep the thieves to a minimal presence.  Now that the thieves are gone - the Priests have generally left save for a small handful that provide daily worship ceremonies.  Now the Necro can attack the Town and fight the PCs at his home base...

Everything is connected - everything the PCs do ripples for good and ill.
tulgurth
member, 99 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 18:16
  • msg #7

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

It seems you were looking for story arcs, or at least that is where the advice is going.  With title forming my answer I can suggest a RPG resource that might help you BUILD the world.  Ironcrown Enterprises has a book titled Game Master Law within their RMSS ruleset that has a section dedicated to world building.  It gives you a step by step outline to follow that covers the majority of all aspects when creating a world.  In another resource, Role master Companion I, IIRC, they have a system for generating cities and its inhabitants as well.  These will definitely make you think about the two above subjects and how you want them.

Not plugging the game, just the resources you might be able to use to help you.  The GM Law will also give you a section for planning you campaign as well.
Kagekiri
member, 165 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 18:33
  • msg #8

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to Andrew Wilson (msg # 1):

I got excited when I read your post, because I remember a time when I was thinking almost exactly the same things.

This free PDF is what answered all my questions and concerns: www.gamemastering.info/media/171/download/Gamemastering.pdf

I'm completely an totally biased about the information in this PDF. It was nothing short of life changing for me. I can't promise it will do the same thing for you, but I will say if you read and apply at least some of the information, you will see positive results.

EDIT: Thanks DarkLightHitomi!
This message was last edited by the user at 18:38, Fri 23 Jan 2015.
DarkLightHitomi
member, 848 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 18:34
  • msg #9

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Two things about campaigns, and some other stuff after,

One, don't prep plots, prep situations. A plot can fail at any point that the players go somewhere other than what the plot called for. Prepping a situation however, doesn't care what the players do. Example, you might have wanted some thugs to be stopped by the players and that the thugs would have a clue on them, but what happens if the players let the thugs escape? Or a player calls the guard and they let the guards handle the bodies once the fight is over? Could you avoid these things? Sure, but it might seem akward and forced depending on what the players do.

Two, the three clue rule. Any time you want the players to find something, make at least three completely different ways to find it. Using the example above, the clue from the thugs was supposed to indicate that a necromancer is about to attack a city in the north. If the players didn't get the clue from the thugs, they might hear a rumor about how the local lizardmen have become scarce, believed to be working for an evil wizard in the north, or they might stumble across a smashed cart that has necromantic artifacts and the manifest says they are headed to a city in the north. With all the ways of telling the players the bad guy is up north, you can easily play the NPCs true to their nature without having to compromise them just to give the players a clue. It also helps when the rogue drags the party along to find rumors before they have a chance to meet the thugs, you can just flow with it and give them the rumor clue instead.


As for worldbuilding, you can design the world first, or you can design based on your needs. The difference is a matter of what is fits you best. If you're terrible at improvising, then building the world first might be what you need, but if you improvise, you can just add details as they are appropriate. (Just be sure to write it all down to maintain consistency).
DarkLightHitomi
member, 849 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 18:35
  • msg #10

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to Kagekiri (msg # 8):

Your link is broken.
GamerHandle
member, 623 posts
Umm.. yep.
So, there's this door...
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 18:52
  • msg #11

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 9):

I completely agree on the Three-clue rule.  There are a lot of ways to implement it, and that is one excellent way.


Also the linked worked for me:

http://www.gamemastering.info/...ad/Gamemastering.pdf
Merevel
member, 947 posts
Gaming :-)
Very unlucky
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 19:42
  • msg #12

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to GamerHandle (msg # 11):

Both links work for me.
icosahedron152
member, 417 posts
Fri 23 Jan 2015
at 20:33
  • msg #13

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In the Stars Without Number scifi rules (you can get a legitimate copy free online) there is a chapter called Factions. This gives very simple rules for creating the movers and shakers of a world. Each political or military leader, each group or guild, in fact every body of influence in your world is regarded as a 'faction'. The rules explain how factions grow and interact with one another and the interplay between factions can create situations for the players to benefit from or fall foul of. In the above, ogres, thieves, priests and necromancers would be different Factions and the rules help you decide how they interact. Plenty of ammunition there for creating the mid-field game.

It also provides a little solo game within a game for the GM.
facemaker329
member, 6567 posts
Gaming for over 30
years, and counting!
Sat 24 Jan 2015
at 02:35
  • msg #14

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to GamerHandle (msg # 6):

This is key.  When players can see repercussions from their earlier actions (for good or ill), it creates a stronger sense of an interconnected world, and instantly adds more gravity to the choices they make.

And it works in pretty much any setting.  As I read GamerHandle's post, I instantly thought of a story arc in a Star Wars game I played...this was probably two decades ago, now...my character was saved from dying by someone from the future, with a time machine of some sort...when they got him to their 'when', he discovered that a seemingly innocuous warning he'd sent someone resulted in him becoming a 'Hero of the Empire'...in that timeline, the Rebellion had been crushed shortly after Hoth.  And I had to figure out how to get my character back to his original timeline--and then convince the other characters to undo what I'd done.

A game I'm in right now is constantly doing 'callbacks' to earlier events, tying in NPCs that had seemed largely trivial when first encountered, and we have regular in-game events that remind us of something we'd done earlier...either someone we didn't deal with coming back to bite us in the butt, or a new someone agreeing to work with us because we'd dealt with the appropriate villainous NPC somewhere along the line.  It adds a huge sense of depth to the game.
OceanLake
member, 881 posts
Sat 24 Jan 2015
at 03:55
  • msg #15

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

Thought: Borrow from history or fiction...appropriate technology, social structure, etc.
shady joker
member, 1600 posts
Sat 24 Jan 2015
at 11:38
  • msg #16

Re: Unhappy with my own world building skills.

In reply to Andrew Wilson (msg # 1):

Steal Shamelessly. You are playing a game at your kitchen table among friends for your own enjoyment. So you can blatantly rip off other works without repercussion as long s you don't try to publish it as your own. Your group like an idea or character from Series so and so? TAKE IT!

 The pitfall of this method is your players my not like series so and so, or prefer original content. But people tend to warm up to ideas they have some familiarity with.

 For example I was running Hunter: the Reckoning. My players watched NCIS, so I took one of the major bad guys of that show,an arms dealer known as "The Frog", and made him a power hungry warlock they had to hunt down. The idea went well.

In the same game one of my players liked to have his character reference Warhammer 40K. So I had nightmare spawn that Resembled Orks fight them.

You get the idea.
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