I like to listen to sports radio in the car when I drive.  Most folks who participate in that particular world were the same ones who liked to beat up the nerdy fantasy/sci-fi/goth/comic book fan-boy (or fill in the blank of your choice) back in high school for liking those sorts of things.

I had to laugh today when a caller was speaking to the host and made the following comment - "Who knew that local athlete who is always injured was going to have the healing powers of Wolverine?" when talking about how the team was going to fare this year.  And the host laughed and agreed with him.

Back in the day, we would have received strange looks - mostly likely with a "Who?" and then get stuffed in a locker for making such a comment...

With the movies, i place the comment based off the movie, rather than comicbook.

Even though movies have always had influence  - it was unpopular to be a Star Wars fan in the 80's & 90's (other than when the movies came out '77-84'ish and again in '99 - but that seems to be when the move started to take place).  I still find it surreal that nerdy pop culture has moved into the mainstream and seems here to stay.

Eh. I think the point is though that if you start talking about stuff that only happened in the comic books; that the movies hasn't touch, you'll still feel it.

FOr example; I've been a Doctor Who fan since before it was popular. But whilst talking about the modern series is now cool and popular; if you start talking about the older Doctors much, you'll still get a certain amount of ridicule.

This is because we 'Geek/Nerd' people have finally out numbered the jocks (or converted the jocks in to US).

In reply to willvr (msg # 4):

But 6 years ago if you talked Dr. Who to anyone (but fans), you'd get - WHO?

Unfortunately that is so very true - I remember seeing the original shows on tv - PBS only. They were good and got me hooked. Wish we have VCR's back then, as many of those shows have been lost to time (and cellophane degradation) [Doctor Who]
This message was last edited by the user at 23:48, Mon 18 Aug 2014.

Yeah; but it's less that it's become popular; as the people who were geeks growing up are now taking on major roles in TV/Moviedom. ANd they've adapted; meeting the general population halfway.

There are people horrified by what's been done to the Marvel universe in the quest to make it popular. I think it's less that Nerdom is cool/popular, and more that those Geeks and Nerds who now run stuff; also are making changes to make it seem more cool.

In reply to ShadoPrism (msg # 5):

I can assure you that's not the case. It's just that geeks now have more money than jocks. Funny how disposable income influences culture.

I think a more precise way to put it, and least offensive, is thatvthe things you thought were cool has gained more mainstream feels.

Geeks and nerds, in my definition, were those who obsessed in different ways towards things people as a general whole did not share appreciation for. Hipsters if you will.

An episode of Recess (Disney cartoon) highlighted it best. When the main protagonist, TJ, was forced to miss recess and stay inside with "the nerds" to his horror, he found they were not so bad and they had one common trait: Appreciation for Señor Fusion, a comic book. From there he got inducted into the analogue of dnd. Yet, you would not call TJ a geek or nerd in any sense.
This message was last edited by the user at 04:14, Tue 19 Aug 2014.

Creativity is always shunned before it is appreciated.  Many times a nerd/geek gets beaten is due to the words coming out of their mouths before they consider the situation they are in.  Sometimes the best RPGer considers the impact of their words in a fantasy setting far more than they do the impact of their words in real life.

If you don't live in a city, it's still the case in lots of places. In Seattle for instance, everyone knows all the scifi pop culture icons. However if you talk scifi to anyone outside of the bigger cities, you'll still get a 'what the fruit is that?' sort of message.

It has come into the mainstream but not everywhere.

In reply to spectre (msg # 12):

Totally disagree.  These days the internet has introduced those scifi icons to everyone with a connection to the internet.  Which is everyone.  I live in a town of 5000 in the Midwest of the US and I still know 5 people who declare themselves bronies.  And those are just the ones who admit it.

Just because you're in a city doesn't mean you're more in touch with popular culture these days.

... no.

I have been in small country towns in rural Australia where admitting you read comics; or play DnD; or whatever, would still lead to ridicule at the least.

I also live in the largest city in Australia; and do not know a single person who considered themselves bronies. In fact; that's one of the few things that will still have people raising an eyebrow at.

In reply to willvr (msg # 14):

So... because Australia?

I guess I'll take your word for it.  I just never saw a lack of population determine the IQs of those around you.  Not to mention that ridicule of people occurs everywhere.  Pretty much any behavior pattern outside any personal norm will be ridiculed.  I just have never seen the persecution factor attributed to the original post.  Do people laugh?  Hell yeah.  But is that bad?  Does it hurt?  No.  They just don't like the kicks you like.  That sort of thing is everywhere.

Roleplaying games aren't mainstream yet, not like video games.  Most people I know would think it very strange if they knew I played D&D, and they'd have no idea what GURPS is.  It's cool to like Star Wars or play a video game RPG like Knights of the Old Republic, but not to play a SW tabletop RPG.  That's definitely not mainstream.  The SW miniatures games are probably somewhere in the middle.  Most people would probably be open-minded about playing them.  They're not that far removed from board games like Risk.
This message was last edited by the user at 05:10, Tue 19 Aug 2014.

In reply to Tlaloc (msg # 13):

 Of course your mileage may vary, but I live in a smaller town than you where the predominant population is mill workers. They make fun of people who like to play video games, so I'm telling you that macho is still alive and well in small towns where they don't know how to use those computers and those guys that do, well, they aren't to be trusted. They are 'computer people' and even though everyone needs a computer these days to use 'the Facebook', why do they have to cost so dang much...

 That's the town I live in, in one of the most progressive states in the union, Washington state. ^_^

I'll debate, to some degree, the fact that being a Star Wars fan in the 80's and 90's got you ridicule...because other popular films were routinely making references to Star Wars (Beverly Hills Cop 2--"So, are you driving?  Or are you, like, using the Force or something?!", Twister--"That's no moon, that's a space station!", etc).  A lot of the 'traditional terrain' for geeks and nerds has been slowly gaining in popularity over time.  I'd just started working at an amusement park when the first X-Men movie came out...and all of these otherwise 'cool kids' that were singers, dancers, actors, in rock bands, etc were all chafing at the bit to go see it.  We've had a whole string of highly successful comic-book-based movies (not just the Marvel ones...there have been several that started out as titles under DC's 'Vertigo' imprint) that have made a lot of people go, "Wait...that's what comic books are?  Man, maybe I should check that out..."

And then there's the TV shows...Smallville put Superman back in the mainstream spotlight again, and paved the way for a lot of successors.  Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly both got the attention of a lot of people who would otherwise likely have steered clear of 'geek country'.  And I've lost track of how many seasons of Big Bang Theory we've had now, which has popularized almost everything in the world of geek-chic.

The long and short of it, though, I think, is that pop culture is steered, largely, by geeks, now.  They/We write the scripts for TV, run many of the production facilities, have infiltrated Hollywood, and control most of the entertainment sites online.  We have become a major force in telling the world what 'cool' is supposed to be.  I'd even argue that something like playing D&D, while still regarded as geeky, is becoming accepted in the mainstream, because there are a lot of people in Hollywood who've fessed up to being gamers...if Vin Diesel can play D&D, it's not THAT 'alternative' anymore.

It's the Information Age...and it's pretty much always been the geeks and nerds that have controlled, in some measure, the flow of information.  So it seems only natural that their hobbies and interests have colored mainstream culture.  And it's not like it's a universal thing, either...I mean, I've always considered myself something of a geek, from way back when, and all of my friends were.  But there are still people I meet, work with, etc that make me sit back and go, "Wow...you are REALLY a geek, aren't you?"

I'd like to state that while I am both, a 'jock' (if you will, due to my later decisions in life) and a very overt nerd (always have been) I would have and still would shove you in a locker for mentioning Dr. Who.  I absolutely despise that show's fans.  NOT the show.  Just the fans.

I never counted nerd and geek as the same thing.
"Nerd" to me means the obsessive, socially inept guy who lives for the numbers/science.
"Geek" is a person who has an enthusiastic niche interest like RPGs, computer games, sci-fi and fantasy movies.

So, nerdom is still not popular. Some things from geekdom have been popularised because, in my opinion, the writers are fans targetting the mainstream. It's written by people who care for people who have no base knowledge of the canon.

I think some proper geeks kick up a fuss purely out of jealousy: they don't want to share this prized thing with the undeserving. On the other hand 'casual geek' is okay in most areas now because my generation has grown up on computer games and movies. But they're not really geeks; not the trebuchet building, cosplay constructing, fanfic writing, theory spinning, trivia font geeks. It's just not considered childish or frivilous any more to like sci-fi.

Eh, the definitions of geeks and nerds overlap in a lot of areas.  Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are called both geeks and nerds.  Both words are associated with a love of technology and things like comic books and science fiction.  When I was a wee lad, the terms nerd, geek, dork, and dweeb all represented different subspecies of the same broad species, the outsider.  Band nerds and band geeks are basically interchangeable terms, as are comic book nerds and comic book geeks.  In fact, the surest sign I know of someone being a need/geek is the tendency to want to talk about how nerds and geeks are similar or dissimilar.  =)

In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 21):

Exactly.  I may be a geek/nerd, but I'm not the same as those geeks/nerds.  They're much more geeky/nerdy than me.

And as Bill Gates said in his rules for life speech for teenagers - Be nice to the nerd in your class, the chances are you will end up working for them.

Truth.

But I cannot condone the cosplay fanatics.  Key word in that being fanatics.  Sorry folks, just can't do it.  Cosplay itself is fun, but some people take it way too far.  It's just like LARPing.  Who doesn't want to be a big kid and go smack another big kid around with a foam sword?  I say keep stats all you want, throw your magic missile, become the game for a day or two if that's up your alley.  But there's a difference between good old fashioned fun and being weird.

This is the truth. However, I do find it funny when you mention that their little sci-fi show is just a fly-by-night fad. That tends to get their scarves all in a bunch.

To be fair, I don't like the show. It's not bad, it's just not my thing. I feel the same way about how Moffat is turning Sherlock Holmes and James Watson into Dr. Who and a Male Companion. :-/ To each their own, though.

.... to be fair; if you want to call it a fly-by-the-night fad, what exactly consitutes something not a fad?

Love it, loathe it, somewhere in between give it credit for longevity.

Just like I don't like Star Wars; but I will give it credit for revolutionising special effects.

Yep, can a show really be called a fad when it's been running for over fifty years?

I didn't mean to say that it was just a fad, or to say that it was objectively bad. I've just had bad luck with meeting fans of the show.

I don't really consider the new show to be Doctor Who. :\  S'all I can really say.  It's Doctor Who the same way this new wannabe version is Power Rangers.  That's not a great analogy.  Hmm.  The same way Ben Affleck is the new Batman?

Maybe the same way the new TMNT is to the comic ninja turtles?

Or Star Wars Clone Wars is to the Original Trilogy, featuring Truman Capote the Hutt?

The first one (TMNT) I wanted to say that earlier, but I haven't seen the new one so I can't really say that with full integrity.

Now, the Star Wars reference.....  Jeez, that's harsh.  I'm not entirely sure the new Doctor Who is on par with the Jar Jar fiasco.

Edit: Wait, clone wars?  I'm half awake. I thought you meant the episode 1 nonsense. What's Clone Wars?...  I should not have googled that....  It cannot be unseen.
This message was last edited by the user at 06:41, Thu 21 Aug 2014.

Well, just to share the possible love:

Hutts in the Original Trilogy:
http://benfanning.com/wp-conte...2013/03/jabba_II.jpg
(Pretty ugly and kinda muppet-y)

Hutts in Clone Wars:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net...es/4/4d/Ziro-SWE.jpg
(Notice the big "poop" tattoo on his chest with a star in the middle, also feathers)

Some Doctor Who fans are scarily geeky. I've had issues with some fans (and I -am- a fan) in how seriously they take their 'best Doctor' or 'best companion' wars.

I just didn't like the idea you'd say something just to ruffle a fans feathers as it were.

In reply to JxJxA (msg # 32):

The Clone Wars movie is certainly dragonfruit, but the two TV series are both very good.

@ willvr: Fair dues. I only ever did it when they wouldn't leave me alone for not liking Dr. Who. At some point, enough was enough.

@Mad Mick: I loved the micro series, but the movie put me off wanting to watch the CGI series. I'm running out of Archer episodes to catch up on, so I might give it a go. I grew up loving Star Wars, and I really want to like it.

In reply to JxJxA (msg # 35):

Fair enough. I always figure there's enough flavors of geekdom to go around; and if you don't like mine that just means your tastes are different. If someone's giving you a hard time over not liking a particular show/movie/whatevs, they deserve whatever you want to dish out. I do think some fans have become self-entitled as it's now considered 'popular'; and have forgotten what it was like to worry if your new friend would still like you after he found out what you liked.

And I do agree that the new Who isn't the same show I grew up with; but I think it's close. Actually, if we could get rid of all the love storylines they keep throwing in it'd be fairly close indeed.

Well, as my daughter points out, the self-publicizing nerds are people who have no idea what it is like to actually be a nerd.

Its not a nerd to like Star Wars/Dr. Who/Marvel, whatever. It is a nerd to be bullied, shunned, mocked and ostracized for liking them.

When rich, attractive, and/or powerful people get up on soapboxes and claim to be a nerd; to the real nerds, it feels not like they are saying 'I'm one of you' but more like 'I'm taking the last thing you thought was yours.'

I don't remember "nerd" or "geek" being much used phrases back in the 70s.  One was a circus performer who bit the heads off chickens, and one was a crunchy sweet candy.  "Dork" was the preferred term.

When the other terms came into popular use in the late 70s or early 80s, I recall they were pretty much used interchangeably, and always for ridicule or scorn, never as a badge of honor.  I think the term "nerd" really came into peak form about the time Revenge of the Nerds hit theaters in 1984.  If you want to know what a "nerd" was, watch that movie.  It wasn't about what they liked, such as their preferred movies or entertainment; that was just a symptom.  It was about their underlying social awkwardness and behaviors.

The connotations of the terms have changed, even if the core underlying meaning of the words has remained somewhat consistent.  (I don't even know that they have been consistent, though, at least as to their application to specific content-- e.g., Star Wars, D&D, comic books.)
This message was last edited by the user at 19:07, Mon 25 Aug 2014.

Ive allways wondered if anyone has ever constructed the hierarchy of Geeks. Its a strange thought that my RPG group has that everyone thats into a geeky hobby looks down on another one and says at least we are not X.

It all stemed from a quote on zero punctuiation. "The kind of nerds that are to nreds what nreds are to normal people"

So far we have worked out the following

"normal people" Look Down on
Video Gamers Look down on
Wargamers Look Down on
Bored gamers Look down on
TCG players Look Down on
Role players Look down on
Reinactment look down on
Cosplayers Look down on
Larpers Look down on
????????

basicly the premise is the further down on the list the more likley you are interestind in something above it. i know its likley more complecated than that list thoough

Problem with the list is, there are a lot of people who fit into it at multiple points.  I've been a video gamer, a role player, a cosplayer, and a LARPer...often during the same period of time.

Establishment of a 'geek hierarchy' presupposes some degree of isolation between the various 'realms' that geeks inhabit.  My experience is that it is actually the exception, rather than the rule, that someone has only one geeky habit...

You are missing the point of it really.

the hierartchy exists because each step down the chain is a more obscure hobby. and people will regularly think well i do X but at least i'm not one of those wierdo's that does Y.

The further down the list you are the more lilkley it is you are also involved with the ones above it. its only a rough draft but it does have some truth to it.

there are some LARPEr's that don't roleplay. But i would say a large proportion do. however there are far more roleplayers that don't LARP.

using some made up stats which is entirly speculation and has no basis.

Say 80% of LARPERS roleplay. But only 10% of roleplayers LARP. it then becomes easy for the roleplayers to go. well my hobby is wierd but at least i'm not part of that strange 10% that take it too far. I only do this in the cool socially adjusted way, those guys are freaks. However a LARPER can't do that and so to get their kicks looks to the level below.

In my LARP group the level below seems to be people who only turn up to LARP to swing a foam sword and don't develop a character, in my RP group they complain about larpers. In my \TCG group they complain about roleplayers. e.t.c

See, my experience is, I know a LOT of people who take great pride in the fact that they have a variety of geek-interests...most of my friends don't LARP, but that has more to do with the fact that nobody in the area runs a game that would interest them to that level and they don't have that much time.  But I have several friends who roleplay, and cosplay, and do CCGs/TCGs, and video game...

So, the ranks you describe may be increasingly obscure...but the concept of a hierarchical ranking of them depends on the notion that a large majority of people have a 'well, at least I don't do THAT' mentality, rather than a 'Well, I've never tried that before...let's give it a shot' or 'which of these hobbies are we pursuing tonight?' mentality.

Of course, that could just be me feeling like my experience is the norm, rather than the exception.  Most of my friends may have been geeks of one specific flavor or another (a lot of them kinda 'cut their teeth' as Star Trek fans, for instance)...but someone would come along and say, "Hey, we should try this..."  And so my social circle consists, in significant measure, of Trekkers who enjoy role playing games, paintball, costuming, computer games, movie-making, SCA-style re-enacting (come are more into Civil War than Middle Ages, but...)

I honestly know barely a handful of people, if even that many, who would fit in this proposed ranking system without repeatedly outranking themselves in one way or another...

Yeah, I don't subscribe to the hierarchy system. I get the feeling that people are going to disagree on what goes where, as is the contrary nature of the human condition. For example, I'm sure some LARP-ers would laugh at tabletoppers for not going outside and enjoying nature. Maybe cosplayers will look down at video game players for not using a practical skill (sewing/making clothes ain't easy).

I will agree with this, though: "Bored gamers" will look down on anyone who is having fun.

...I'm an apple strudel... ;-p

Personally I think the ranking idea fails less because because people don't do it and more because there is no consistancy among people and how they rank and classify various activities.

For example I am a brony and a gamer, larper, paintball player, airsoft player, even a casual spelunker and hiker.

The only thing I ever really saw that could be said is that most folks I met either focus on outdoors stuff or indoors stuff with only a few that go really deep into both. I have however met several people that don't any kind of sports or games (beyond classics and oldies, like golf, poker, and bridge)

In reply to PushBarToOpen (msg # 39):

Lore Fitzgerald Sjoberg made one about a decade ago, image found below:

<img src ="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_29_shKT4Elw/R1L0LSjRtsI/AAAAAAAACSo/J5mUYyrb-y4/s1600-R/geeks.gif>

Woah, there's no point in getting personal or espousing such hate speech.  (Additional text so that the reply isn't so short.)

In reply to Genghis the Hutt (msg # 46):

In their defense, subsequent comments lead me to suspect it's a very specific type of fan. The ones which annoy me, and I'm a fan since the late '80s, so I wouldn't take the comments overly seriously.

This message was deleted by the user at 09:54, Thu 11 Sept 2014.

Perhaps Ron is measuring it in Parsecs?   ;)