I updated my last message. Didn't expect replies so quickly. :D

ALSO: I just realized you could totally make a mud wall.  The Afghans loved their mud walls, both for buildings and for walls around their compounds.  You could use this on a larger scale, especially if there's a mote around the outside, and the outsides of those walls you could literally cover with sharp jagged pieces of scrap metal and glass while the mud's still wet.  When it dries, ain't nobody gonna want to try and scale it without a ladder.

Edit: pfarland, I think he was saying that would just be the entrance.  I can see the problems with it, but all things can be overcome with time and pressure and a good tactical mind.  I just hope you don't end up a raider after the bombs drop, you crafty monster you.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:11, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

What do you guys think of using an underpass as the entrance to a settlement?  Barricade it of course, make a wall along the overpass/bridge above it, and continue that wall around the settlement.  But it could be re purposed as a gate I hope.

The mud is a good basis.  Mix in grass/weeds and let it dry.  It actually has a name, but it's escaping me for the moment.

Also, if you have access to clays in the soil (many places do) you can form them into blocks and either sun dry them or toss them in a kiln.  Now you have bricks.

Tunnels are good escape routes, but leave them as such.  Build locks (like you have in channels) as your entrances.

Locks?  Explain please.  I'm not sure what you mean.

Edit: I just looked up channel locks on the google monster.  I got the tools.  I feel like an idiot.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:24, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

In reply to Dark Devine (msg # 17):

Locks basically at each entrance/exit have a fenced in area with inner gate and outer gate that open separately. A group would have to come through both gates. For best effect make them so only one can be open at a time.

Ohhhh.  That makes sense to me. :)  You just gave me an idea.  Weights and counter weights.  One gate drops, the other lifts.  (Unless they are both manually lowered into down position.)  It would be much easier on communities with low fuel/power sources, because it could be done with a pulley system.

Actually, that might be terrible- my counterweight system I mean.  Unless they were offset, a motorcycle or two could fly right through.  If they're (they being the rider) of the self-destructive kind (I'm sure you know what I mean) it could be very bad for the gate as a whole.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:29, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

Edit: well that didn't work.  Off to paint I go!
This message was last edited by the user at 22:37, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ncnsq0&s=8


You mean something like this, right?  (Gray being gates, black being wall or fence)

If you have a road leading up to your entrance, you use jersey walls and stagger them down the road for a bit.  Stops anyone from approaching at a high speed.

Jersey walls are the concrete dividers you see on freeways and highways.  You could pick them up with a tow truck (the kind that carries the car on the back).  You could probably get a few on at a time.  The would also be helpful placed right before your ditch/moat.  Give it a greater effective depth, shield any thing like spikes from eyes until the last minute and provide an extra barrier against ramming attacks.  If your wall is decently high even (say 15 ft high) they wouldn't provide any effective cover for the enemy.

Jersey barriers! THANK you.  I've been trying to remember what those are called forever. :\  I knew they had a name.  What are the big square cement blocks, which kind of serve the same purpose?  We used those at a few of our gates on Okinawa.  Do they have a name, or is it just 'cement block'?

In reply to Dark Devine (msg # 21):

That is just one way.

In reply to Dark Devine (msg # 23):

Are you talking about dragons teeth?

No, but those are pretty cool.  I was talking about these ugly but efficient things:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/...133_128cf2642d_z.jpg

I also had an idea, while we were discussing rocks.  What about intermingling vertical structural support (either logs, railroad ties, or metal construction beams for example) and debris?

Example:

If the vertical supports were too rare to make a wall entirely of it, place them every x yards/meters and use them to support stacked rubble, stone, and other solid junk.  Cars, engine blocks, tires, et cetera.


Also: ya'all mentioned filling stuff with dirt.  In lieu of hesco or gabions, you could use barrels if you stumbled across enough of them.  Preferably barrels that couldn't be used for other things like water storage.  I'd say barrels that used to contain petroleum products, fertilizers or pesticides.
This message was last edited by the user at 23:00, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

Those blocks are just straight up concrete barricade blocks.

As for your idea it's a good one if you are limited and can't find larger things.

The more anchors you have into the ground, the less chance of the wall toppling over.  It really doesn't matter what you use as long as it has some strength.  My idea about the crushed and filled car?  I would only bother with two downward supports and two upward ones for the car above it.  Intermingling things into the wall would work, though if you are using small debris you'll need an outer casing.

I'd like to reiterate one of the before mentioned ideas someone had, by the way: windshields and back glasses.  Especially if you're making walls out of crushed vehicles.  You could take out most or all of the windshields, provided you had the time, and put them outside the walls, though you'd have to find some way to make them stay in place.  Smash them up.  Nobody's gonna want to try to climb your call wall then. ;)

Good call on the anchors by the way.  I honestly hadn't thought about the fact that the cars would just fall over.  I just assumed they stayed put, as I never looked inside them when I was in junkyards. :\


Not really 'defense', but I found a can of swollen unmarked foodstuffs once when cleaning out a storage unit.  (Don't ever work for a storage place.. Bad things you find in those units.)  We tossed it in a dumpster and it exploded all over the inside.  I gagged for a full two minutes after that, just from the smell.  Spoiled foods, especially those that build pressure in the decaying process, would make one h*** of a biological weapon in a pinch.

Never underestimate the value of natural defenses. thorn bushes, briers, stinging or poisonous plants are not going to stop an enemy dead int their tracks, but they make getting into the compound/settlement harder.While they can be hacked out of the way, burned, or removed by other means that takes time and makes noise.

I know that in some regions native tribesmen would use thorns, and other local plants to construct barriers and rings around compounds. A similar trick might be to use blackberry or other thorny vines In areas where they are native. A wall of blackberry bushes, thorn trees, or even stinging nettles, could do much the same job as barbed wire..in the case of thorny fruit/berry plants they also provide food.

Another layer of defenses could be cans, bottles, or other debris on strings or vines. These would alert a group to intruders and would be hard to spot among undergrowth..naturally occurring or intentionally seeded around the out perimeter of the compound.

Broken concrete, wrecked cars, guardrails, and railroad ties are also a cheap plentiful source of material and can be moved without the need for heavy equipment...well unless you want to make your walls out of those large concrete dividers found along highways.

Bits of glass, bone, or metal can be planted in shallow pits, and then covered with trash or undergrowth, hidden in the rings of thorns etc. one wrong step means an intruder ends up with a nasty gash in his leg or foot. making a lot of noise in the process.

In reply to w byrd (msg # 30):

Thorny vines are a really good idea.  Especially if you 'seeded them' along your debris wall and helped them grow.  Over a few seasons (I'm guessing a few seasons) it'd grow over those crushed cars and make climbing them less than enjoyable.  Wouldn't suggest it for a mud wall or anything like that though, as they'd hasten the destruction of said wall by growing into its surface.

Edit: another thought: it'd draw in animals.  Birds, small furry woodland creatures, all of which are a good food source.  Just watch out for snakes...  Those would help with defense of course, but not if you're the one they decided to nail. ;)

Edit # 2:
In the case of a 'car wall' or other vehicles, it'd tie them down and more firmly cement them in place over a few years.  I would know.. Tried to move an old ford truck (had to be from the 20s) out of a bramble once.  It wasn't very keen on moving.  Ended up having to burn the whole patch down just to get it out of there.
This message was last edited by the user at 23:21, Fri 15 Aug 2014.

In a desert climate, fill your trench with cacti opposed to brambles and briar patches. ;)

Glad you liked my idea for the vehicle glass.

Barring some of the excessive thorny plants most of them are but a minor nuisance, especially is the enemy is heavily clothed, armored, or zombies.  And if you're doing a car wall, you do want the vehicles on their sides and then layered.

-- -- -- --
 -- -- --
-- -- -- --
 -- -- --

Like that.  Caking other materials on the wall helps.  One of the things about armor in general, different types of materiel protect well against different things.  Kevlar for instance is great vs bullets, but sucks vs knives.

In reply to Dark Devine (msg # 31):

Well drawing in small animals, and snakes helps with the food too... If the snake has faulty friend or Foe systems you just add it to the potluck....

And in desert areas there are a bunch of trees that that make barbed wire look warm and friendly....

In reply to w byrd (msg # 34):

Rattlesnake actually tastes pretty good.

Confirming that knife thing.  Also: never take bets against it, you'll lose.

What you're saying is: layer the cars vaguely like bricks.  Noted.  And yes, that glass idea was brilliant.  I was thinking so much about how to use cars after fuel went out that I never considered the uses of the windshields.

I just watched a movie called Stakeland for the first time today, and was really impressed with their use of the train. If you haven't seen it, they basically utilized a train that was already in the town as a mobile gate.  While I'm sure you'd run out of coal sooner or later, if you could somehow keep it coming (a nearby coal mine perhaps) it'd be quite the handy little barrier.

w byrd:

Not to mention, since deadlands is horror-pocalypse (for lack of better words) there are even more mutated freak plants (especially in deserts) that could do the same. ;)  Just as long as you kept them trimmed down.  Can't have man eating vines nabbing your sentries as they walk the wall.



Special note: If you absolutely must use an underground terrain, such as hand dug tunnel systems, take a page from those b***tard VC.  They had dual tunnel systems from time to time, one set directly above the other like so

______________________________________

The tunnel you know about and are in.
______________________________________

The tunnel those peaches are in.
______________________________________


They would line the floor with whatever they could to stabilize it.  Crisscrossing roots and wood thatching, with regular support to keep it from shifting, then cover the 'floor' of the upper tunnel with dirt.  From underneath they'd spear or shoot the poor guy sent in to clear the tunnel...  It's a terrifying tactic, and I despise them for it, but it'd be very effective if used right.  And they usually did.

Alternatively, you could rig it up with 'cover' and drop them into a pit full of god only knows what.  It's really hard to backpedal and avoid falling through the trap when you only have a few inches of overhead clearance and your shoulders are touching the walls. :\

Personal note: To any Vietnam vets who read this: I am very, very sorry.
This message was last edited by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 04:14, Tue 19 Aug 2014.

Yep, layer them like bricks.  Horizontally and vertically.  The whole key is to find something that is widely available and has no use.  Find a use for it.

And yeah, I wasn't there, but the tunnels were NASTY.  The guys that went into them, the Tunnel Rats, truly some BAD APPLE men.  I knew a SEaL from 'nam and he had some SERIOUS respect for them.

Knew a Marine from back then Interestingly, the reason I went in though he tried numerous times to talk me out of it.  He said he was never happier to be tall...  Sure, it made him a bigger target above ground, but at least he didn't have to go in the holes.