RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to Community Chat

15:29, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K.

Posted by Varsovian
Varsovian
member, 1055 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 16:32
  • msg #1

RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Continuing the theme of RPG introductions, could you tell me a little about WH40K games: Dark Heresy, Black Crusade etc.?

I know the gist: there's human space empire, immortal emperor, Chaos gods etc. What I'd like to know is:

1. Are these games serious? The general ideas seem nicely grim, but then I look closer at them and I see chainsaw swords and similar over-the-top silliness...

2. Is there anything in-depth about these games, or are their mostly action games about killing monsters?

3. Are these games connected in any way? Do I need, say, Dark Heresy to understand and play Black Crusade?
knightriefel
member, 7 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 16:53
  • msg #2

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

I've been playing Dark Heresy since the first supplement came out, Rogue Trader since it came out, and Only War since beta. Deathwatch and Black Crusade I've dabbled in a bit but I know those first three the best.

1. You can run very silly games in the 40K universe (it ends up being a pretty grim kind of humor) but in general the games are pretty serious. Chainswords, the "Calixian Infantryman's Portable Communications Transcription Device" (essentially, a pen), and the well-known phrase "Drive me closer; I want to hit them with my sword!" are examples of the Imperium's often backwards way of thinking. Apparently, after having a golden age of technology, we end up losing a lot of our information on that kind of stuff, so what remains is revered simply for its ancientness (even if it's not as effective). In my opinion, the silliness you point out works well to balance out the grim-dark setting of 40K.

2. Each of the games can be run as action-packed "dungeon" crawls, but the real meat of each system happens when action is story driven. Dark Heresy is focused on investigators rooting out heresy, so action results when the heretics try to fight back. Rogue Trader and Black Crusade are driven by personal ambitions, whether those be empire building or subverting the false emperor. And Deathwatch and Only War are military campaign driven, where action follows the ebb and flow of a war.

3. Short answer to the second part of your question is "no, you don't need one to understand/play/enjoy the others." However, each of the games are connected in that they share very similar systems (1d100 based, lots of matching skills/talents, often comparable character levels) and they share the 40K setting. Furthermore, the "primary location" of each system (the sector where each system takes place if you don't want to make up your own) is connected to the others. The Calixis Sector (DH) borders the Koronus Expanse (RT). Between the two is a warp gate to the Jericho Reach (DW) and a warp storm within which reside the Screaming Vortex (BC). Lastly, Only War takes place on the "northern" fringe of the Calixis Sector.

Hope this helps. I'd love to answer any more questions.
Jhaelan
member, 24 posts
Prefers roles to rolls
Based in UTC+1
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 16:59
  • msg #3

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Worth pointing out there's some really neat fiction backstory too
Varsovian
member, 1056 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:08
  • msg #4

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

First additional question: didn't this universe use to be WH *30* K? Or does my memory fail me?

Second question: are the systems for these games complicated? These days, I prefer simple games, like White Wolf's games, or GURPS (which has scary character creation, but is simple at its core).

Third question: is there a lot of silliness? When I look at these games, I often see cartoony art. Then, I see chainsaws. And then, I see bulky power armour... and my suspension of disbelief fails...

Let me put it this way: I like White Wolf, as well as Call of Cthulhu. I don't like DnD. Are WH40K games for me, then?
Jhaelan
member, 25 posts
Prefers roles to rolls
Based in UTC+1
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:21
  • msg #5

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 4):

3. Depends on what you call silly and where on the continuum your GM plays. I like the 40K universe and I prefer WoD over DnD
Varsovian
member, 1057 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:27
  • msg #6

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Hm, I see...

Another question: what kind of enemies are there in these games? I know that there's the human empire and the heretics. Are there alien races? I seem to remember something about orcs and "genestealers"...
swordchucks
member, 800 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:32
  • msg #7

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

I'm not knowledgeable in the RPG incarnations of 40K, but I have a lot of general knowledge on the setting.  The chainsword isn't silly if you consider the need to chew through often very thick armor plating on foes.  Aside from heavily armored assault troops, humans rarely want to be in melee with things as pretty much everything in the universe is either stronger, more skilled, or both.




Warhammer 40k in general, is the very definition of GrimDark.  Humans are ruled by their undead god-emperor that only clings to life through the repeated sacrifice of countless psionic humans.  Travel is deadly and demons lurk everywhere, just waiting to spring forth and devour the minds of the unwary (and then use their shells to murder everyone they can).  Treason and heresy lurk behind every corner as men fall prey to the seduction of demonic forces or become genetically subverted by the tyranid swarm.  External threats are even more numerous.




So... I can say that the flavor is very good and the setting very serious and rich.  I can't really speak to the RPGs as I've not played them (and honestly, the setting is so dark I don't know that I care to).
knightriefel
member, 8 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:37
  • msg #8

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

1. If it was, it was before I got into it (seven-ish years ago) - it's always been 40K to me. As was mentioned above, it has a neat fiction backstory that goes back to our present day here in 2014 and even before that.

2. Most people have accused the 40K RPGs of having too many things to remember (too many skills to train, too many talents, too many different actions in combat, etc.), but the core systems are fairly simple. Every test is a 1d100 roll trying to get below a characteristic plus or minus a bonus/penalty. Combat is always a Full Action worth of actions (one Full or two Halfs) and a Reaction if necessary. And the rules that are specific to each system (starship combat in RT, horde mechanics in DW, etc.) are meant to be more narrative than number-crunchy.

3. Having never played any of those other three systems, someone else will have to answer this one. I will reiterate, however, that chainswords, bulky power armour, power discs, lightning gauntlets, and long-named pens make perfect sense within the 40K universe. But if your suspension of disbelief fails because of some artist's rendition of something in the setting, then perhaps you should skip these RPGs.

4. Each game has their "signature enemy," if you will, but you can fight any enemies you want. Common opponents include heretics, daemons, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orcs, Tyranids (including genestealers), Tau, Kroot, several other sentient races, and many other dangers in the galaxy. As a GM I would choose enemies for my players based on their power level. Beginning DH characters could take on a few cultists but would fall easily to even a single Eldar. On the other hand, late-game DW characters mow through cultists like tissue paper but are challenged by Tyrant Lords and Daemon Princes.
Varsovian
member, 1058 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 17:46
  • msg #9

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Thanks. Let's talk about the goals / plots of these games...

As I understand, DH is about hunting heretics. I can picture that... What exactly is BC about, aside from being an evil cultist? And what are RT and DW about?
Ameena
member, 38 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 18:27
  • msg #10

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

In Dark Heresy, you work for a group called the Inquisition. The Inquisition is divided up into three sectionsm called Ordos, each of whicih deals with different "threats" to the Imperium.

Ordo Malleus deals with Chaos stuff - Daemons and cultists and all that. The four Chaos Gods are basically the embodiments of certain emotions and stuff. Khorne is all about war and blood ("Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!"), and all his daemons tend to be red and covered in spikes and other pointy bits. All Khorne cares about is that you shed as much blood as possible, regardless of whose it is (even your own). Then there's Nurgle, who's all about disease and decay and stuff. His followers and daemons tend to resemble bulging creatures with all pus and boils and icky stuff like that. Slaanesh is all about experiencing extremes of pain/pleasure, and his/her daemons (there tend to be a lot of hermaphroditic creatures/followers because...then you've got more...erm, parts...to do stuff with) tend to have tentacles and stuff, and some resemble a sort of daemonic temptress/seductress creature, and stuff like that. Finally there is Tzeentch, the Lord of Change, who'se all about mutations and stuff like that. His daemons come in all shapes and sizes but I know of one which looks like a giant vulture...thingy.
Anyway, all these things are evil and foul and they must be burned and purged from the world with fire and stuff!

Ordo Xenos deals with aliens, because they're not human and not part of the Imperium and so they are bad and evil and must be purged from existence with fire and stuff. Some alien species include Orks (with a K, not a C), who are all about "More dakka!" and "More choppy!" and going "WAAAAGGGHH". There are Tau, who are erm, I think they're blue or something...their principle is all about "For the greater good" I think, but I don't know much about them. There are Tyranids, which are all about getting their genes onto a planet so they can breed super-fast and take it over with their massive numbers, then go off and do the same to another planet. There are Necrons, which I think are basically robot-thingys whose aim is to destroy all life everywhere. And a bunch of other stuff, I think.

Ordo Hereticus deals with heretics, and this is whom you work for in Dark Heresy. You deal with any heretical tuff that doesn't fit into the areas covered by the other two Ordos.

Each of the three has its own "elite" section. Ordo Malleus has the Grey Knights, all of whom are Psykers (the 40k version of a spellcaster, they all use psychic powers to do their stuff which involves accessing the Warp in order to do it...oh yeah, the Warp is where Chaos resides so there is a chance you might accidentally bring a Daemon or something through instead). Ordo Xenos has Deathwatch, all of whom are Space Marines, the best of the best pulled from various chapters and given a special Deathwatch badge, basically - these are whom you play as in the Deathwatch game. Finally, Ordo Hereticus has the Adepta Sororitas, aka the Sisters of Battle. All female, all very religious. Mind you, if you're not a total religious nut in Dark Heresy (the God Emperor of Mankind being your god...unless you're a Tech Priest in which case it's the Omnissiah), you're probably gonna get called a heretic and purged with fire and stuff ;).

So that's Dark Heresy. In Rogue Trader you play...well, a Rogue Trader (like a freelance ship captain) and crew with your own ship. The various charcacter "classes" in Rogue Trader resemble some of those from Dark Heresy (there is a tech-based one, a psychic-powered one, a shooty-one, and so on). I've not played much of this one so I don't know much about it.

In Black Crusade you play basically the kind of people the Inquisition will be after - Chaos worshippers, doing stuff which will earn you favour with the Chaos Gods (or just one of them, if you want more specific er...benefits). You have a high chance of mutating beyond all recognition (but this is GOOD because it means your god favours you!) and/or going completely insane and just getting turned into a gribbly monster (this is...less good).

All fun :D.
Varsovian
member, 1059 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 18:47
  • msg #11

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Thanks :)

Could you tell me more about heretics? What do heretics do, exactly? When I first read about them, I thought heretics worship Chaos...
knightriefel
member, 9 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 19:00
  • msg #12

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Ameena:
Ordo Hereticus deals with heretics, and this is whom you work for in Dark Heresy.

You can work for any of the three Ordos, or any of the other minors ones, or none of them.

Concerning "heretics," the most broad and basic definition is anyone who doesn't agree with/follow the Imperium. Since it's a mixed religio-political system, crime and heresy are often interchangeable. More specifically, there are different kinds of heretics, but usually fall under the umbrellas of Chaos heretics (those who worship one of the Chaos Gods or one of their agents) and Xenos heretics (those who side with xenos and try to help them accomplish their goals). These two categories are by far the most common and plentiful, but there are others (secessionists would probably be called heretics, as would anyone who denies the Emperor as a god).

Concerning Black Crusade, the official end goal is to start a new Black Crusade - a massive army of anti-Imperialists with the express intent of storming Terra and bringing death to the False Emperor. Of course as agents of Chaos you can choose to ignore this goal completely and serve your own ends, or aim for a small target (bringing Chaos to an Imperial sector, like Calixis for example).
Mustard Tiger
member, 693 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 19:26
  • msg #13

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 1):

40K is one of those settings that is so 'grimdark' it becomes comedic. Like all the skulls on everything and the goofy oversized weapons. And I always get a laugh when races are labeled 'Dark.'
Varsovian
member, 1060 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 19:38
  • msg #14

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

A question about Black Crusade: if I play a Chaos worshipper, do I have do to evil stuff? Is it a game when I have to play a mass murderer, or someone like that?

Also, I keep reading that the Empire of Man is bad place. Why is that so?
knightriefel
member, 10 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 20:04
  • msg #15

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

To worship Chaos you would have to do something that pleases either all of Chaos (something detrimental to the False Emperor) or something that pleases a specific god. Mass murder is one option; Khorne would certainly enjoy that. But planning and executing plots that cripple the tithe from an Imperial world would please Tzeentch. Or taking over a pleasure world and getting everyone addicted to one form of passion or another would please Slaanesh. So evil yes, but not necessarily mass murder.

The Imperium is a difficult place to live if you're not the 0.01% born into wealth or power. The reigning form of morality is utilitarianism, so the needs of the many (the survival of the Imperium) outweigh the needs of the few (the standard of living on individual worlds). So life itself is hard. And then there are daemons who eat your souls and xenos who wear your flesh. That makes it a bad place to live. The middle ages' superstitions, short life spans, life of labor, and feudal and religious hierarchy is probably the most readily understandable example.
Varsovian
member, 1061 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 20:26
  • msg #16

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

I see. And, if I understand correctly, there's some war going on?

BTW. I looked up WH40K on Wikipedia and the page describes OW, DW and BC as martial-oriented. Is it accurate?
knightriefel
member, 11 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 20:39
  • msg #17

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

(I'm reading this question as continuing from the previous line of Black Crusade questions; if this is wrong, let me know.) There is a constant war between Chaos and the God-Emperor all across the universe, and this war is fought between daemons/heretics/Chaos Space Marines and the various forces of the Imperium (usually, Grey Knights, the Inquisition, and Space Marines). Occasionally an agent of Chaos becomes infamous enough to bring together a Black Crusade, a more directed large scale force.

That is definitely accurate for Only War and Deathwatch; both of those systems follow squads of soldiers through a military campaign. There can be some intrigue, some mystery, some investigation, some diplomacy, but the characters are built primarily for combat. On the other hand, certain archetypes (read "classes") in Black Crusade are combat-oriented, but others are social characters, tech characters, psychic characters, etc. It has combat just like DH and RT, but it's not the primary theme like DW and OW.
Varsovian
member, 1062 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 21:04
  • msg #18

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

Just to get a better image: is that Empire-Chaos war very intense? Are these occassional skirmishes, or full-scare galactic war constantly going on on multiple planets? Is it a ground war, or are space fleets involved?

Coming back to Black Crusade - so, this game is... very dark, right? Because you either have to kill innocents, or - say - spread disease or perverse sex? There's no way to play a sympathetic (or even good) follower of Chaos?
Jhaelan
member, 27 posts
Prefers roles to rolls
Based in UTC+1
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 21:14
  • msg #19

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

In reply to Varsovian (msg # 18):

Full scale galactic war that has lasted ten thousand years
Ameena
member, 39 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 21:25
  • msg #20

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

"In the grim dark future of the 41st millennium, there is only war."

Really, no-one is a "good guy". The Imperium basically say "worship the God Emperor otherwise some nice people from the Inquisition will be along with flamers and pointy objects to show you why your method of thinking is wrong". If you're a Tech Priest, you worship the Omnissiah, not the same thing as the God-Emperor (who, incidentally, is basically a corpse rigged up to a machine so the remnants of the uber psychic power he had while he was alive continue to power the heart of the Imperium) and the heart of your people's stuff is on Mars rather than Holy Terra (as they call Earth int his setting). But the Adeptus Mechanicus (Tech Priests) provide all the tech the Imperium needs, so...it's okay, they don't count as heretics and the Imperium totally wouldn't fall apart without their tech or anything, honest, no, they're not being hypocritical or anything like that. Nope. Not at all. Here, come look at this power sword I'm totally not gonna decapitate you with for even thinking that there's something wrong with the way the Imperium is run.

The Imperium is basically at war with everyone. The Chaos gods want to destroy/mutate/infect everything so they and their spawn and followers need to be destroyed. The xenos (that is, every species that isn't a daemon or a human) must be destroyed because they're xenos (rehardless of whether they're actively trying to destroy the Imperium in return...though most/all of them are anyway). Mutants must be destroyed 'cause they're mutants, therefore obviously touched by Chaos and therefore a Bad Thing. Humans who don't worship the God Emperor of Mankind and aren't part of the Adeptus Mechanicus must be destroyed because they're obviously heretics so have no place in the Imperium.

Black Crusade...it depends on which Chaos God you choose to follow - you can choose not to specifically align yourself with any of the four but you don't get any many benefits as if you focus on one...though note that each of the Four has one they get on well with, one they're not fussed about, and one they can't stand - Khorne is good with Nurgle but HATES Tzeentch, because omg magic diediedie. In theory you could be a "nice" person by your own definition (in any of the games, not just in BC), but just be aware that "nice" in that setting doesn't really come anywhere close to "nice" as we know it IRL. It's the grim dark future of the 41st millennium, and, as the quote says, there is only war ;).
knightriefel
member, 12 posts
Sat 9 Aug 2014
at 21:31
  • msg #21

Re: RPGs for Dummies: Tell me about WH40K

As Jhaelan says, it's a galaxy-spanning long-lasting war. But we're both using war here not as armies fighting armies (though that certainly happens in some cases - see the Eye of Terror) but rather like the US is at war with terrorists or Muslims and Christians fight in some countries. It's not a definitive war with two clear sides and individual battles but rather a war of ideologies that fights in the minds of citizens as well as on the battlefield.

I'm not sure what a sympathetic or good follower of Chaos would be. As to how evil you have to be, you have to be against the Imperium. But the Imperium is often an evil organization in and of itself. So are you really evil for fighting evil? It's an interesting question. In general, though, I would only play Black Crusade with mature roleplayers (where "mature" describes their maturity level, not their age) because of the complicated themes, not to mention their adult nature.

Here is a link to the Support page of Black Crusade on FFG's website. Under Official Adventures you can download "Broken Chains" for a prewritten mission. You might read through that to get a feel for some of the things you would do as an agent of Chaos.
Sign In