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11:07, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Posted by Azraile
Jarodemo
member, 610 posts
Vestibulum nescio latine.
Sun 13 Jul 2014
at 07:02
  • msg #48

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 46):

Law is an easily definable quantity. Some is either legal or illegal, although policy makers can change this as they see fit. Good and evil are more personal, moral distinctions with grey boundaries.

Lawful and Good are very different things. Is a law that permits the state to execute a convicted felon 'good'? Some would argue a big no to that, but that doesn't make it unlawful.

Example - the Crusades. I'm sure that the Europeans who travelled to the Holy Land to fight did so because they believed they were doing good, and performing God's work against the evil Saracens. And I'm equally sure that the opposition forces felt equally strongly that they were doing good, fighting the evil invades from the west.

In that conflict the truth is that there was no 'good' or 'evil', just two opposing forces with different religious beliefs fighting each other. The good guys and bad guys is just a point of view.

It is easy to judge groups like the Inquisition with hindsight and call them evil. If they genuinely believed that they were doing the right thing in God's eyes... They might have been wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make them evil. Same goes for burning witches. Yes it was wrong (in hindsight) but to call those who did it evil is not necessarily true, though I concede that some of those who did it may have known it was wrong all the time and can genuinely be called evil.

-

Back to my Paladin character, he believes that he is Good. He is following his god's law and the doctrine of the sect he is a member of. Therefore he can legitimately be classed as Lawful Good. He has no plans to kills other PCs, who are all Good or Neutral except the assassin. He might try to turn the evil assassin away from his chosen life, but would only fight/kill him if the assassin tried to kill another party member (which I think is unlikely as the player is not a jerk).

In the setting there are a pantheon of gods, not monotheism, so believing in other gods isn't an issue. There is a difference between believing in and being a follower of. A roman priest of Jupiter would also believe in all of the other gods.

Regarding monsters, we are currently fighting evil giants so he is doing his god's work. He would only fight good/neutral opponents (e.g. Animals) to defend himself, for food or for sport (he is a Knight after all).
Jarodemo
member, 611 posts
Vestibulum nescio latine.
Sun 13 Jul 2014
at 07:03
  • msg #49

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to Andrew Wilson (msg # 47):

Lol! I considered throwing in Nazi Germany as an example but didn't want to risk a Godwin... :)
steelsmiter
member, 998 posts
GURPS, FFd6, Pathfinder
NO FREEFORM!
Sun 13 Jul 2014
at 08:13
  • msg #50

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Jarodemo:
Law is an easily definable quantity. Some is either legal or illegal, although policy makers can change this as they see fit. Good and evil are more personal, moral distinctions with grey boundaries.

Lawful and Good are very different things. <snip>

Right. I already made that point

quote:
Example - the Crusades. I'm sure that the Europeans who travelled to the Holy Land to fight did so because they believed they were doing good, and performing God's work against the evil Saracens. And I'm equally sure that the opposition forces felt equally strongly that they were doing good, fighting the evil invades from the west.

In that conflict the truth is that there was no 'good' or 'evil', just two opposing forces with different religious beliefs fighting each other. The good guys and bad guys is just a point of view.

Both sides were wrong. Although it does further establish my point that just because you think you're good doesn't mean you are. Same goes for your god's wishes. And I fail to see how a god that wants people on a crusade (like killing heretics) is good.

quote:
It is easy to judge groups like the Inquisition with hindsight and call them evil. If they genuinely believed that they were doing the right thing in God's eyes... They might have been wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make them evil.

Fine, but they're not good either. They might be able to claim neutrality at best.

quote:
Back to my Paladin character, he believes that he is Good. He is following his god's law and the doctrine of the sect he is a member of. Therefore he can legitimately be classed as Lawful Good.

Aah no, Lawful yes, Good no. Especially not if heretics have to die for the simple act of worshipping another god.

quote:
He has no plans to kills other PCs, who are all Good or Neutral except the assassin. He might try to turn the evil assassin away from his chosen life, but would only fight/kill him if the assassin tried to kill another party member (which I think is unlikely as the player is not a jerk).

The fact that he would attempt to change the assassin's lifestyle is a Good thing to do, but if he's leaving heretics alive, he's a hypocrite. I could plausibly see a hypocritical paladin as Lawful Good provided that he didn't kill anyone that wasn't already trying to kill him or a loved one, or someone otherwise defenseless.

quote:
In the setting there are a pantheon of gods, not monotheism, so believing in other gods isn't an issue. There is a difference between believing in and being a follower of. A roman priest of Jupiter would also believe in all of the other gods.

Actually no, he doesn't strictly have to if he doesn't want to. Except where the heretic burners come in. In any case, killing a believer or a follower strictly on that basis is not Good. But as I said, you can still claim moral Neutrality.

quote:
Regarding monsters, we are currently fighting evil giants so he is doing his god's work. He would only fight good/neutral opponents (e.g. Animals) to defend himself, for food or for sport (he is a Knight after all).
Fair enough, as long as they are foregoing their opportunity to attest their moral compass (for example by attacking you), I can't say I've got a problem that. Unless you're pulling the Murder Hobo schtick of invading their home to do it.
This message was last edited by the user at 08:15, Sun 13 July 2014.
HornetCorset
member, 194 posts
Sun 13 Jul 2014
at 19:08
  • msg #51

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In Deadlands, I have a preacher who behaves in a lot of ways like a paladin (a completely clueless paladin, as described in my previous post above, given his 1d4-2 cognition). Because it's Deadlands, there's rarely any question of "is it evil?" Usually he decides on the spot if it's evil or not (as he doesn't really have any actual Detect Evil ability), and that decides his next course of action. If it's evil, he pulls out his sword and rushes headlong. If it's not, he pulls out his cross and gets into a shouting competition with the enemy (6d12+4 overawe. For those of you who aren't familiar with Deadlands, that's a lot).

That said, he likes to beat people into submission without killing them and then using his healing abilities to patch them up. He's generally not a huge fan of killing something that hasn't already died at least once.

At first, it was fun having him in the same party as a voodoo priestess (chaotic good), a pseudo-satanic gambler (chaotic evil/neutral) and an undead abomination (lawful good, maybe?) without him ever knowing. Since then, he's found out a decent amount of it. He's still fun to play just being totally self-righteous and completely clueless about pretty much everything.

And, to answer a previous question, he has no plans to kill the gambler, but he has threatened to on multiple occasions. (I would say my guy is all bark and no bite, but he has literally beaten the Hell out of some things.)

Long story short, you can't mess with people just by having your character play a particular alignment. You can have your character mess with the other characters, but that's a different story entirely.
Amyante
member, 181 posts
Nobody ever considers
the feelings of a weapon
Sat 19 Jul 2014
at 23:35
  • msg #52

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

steelsmiter:
Jarodemo:
Back to my Paladin character, he believes that he is Good. He is following his god's law and the doctrine of the sect he is a member of. Therefore he can legitimately be classed as Lawful Good.

Aah no, Lawful yes, Good no. Especially not if heretics have to die for the simple act of worshipping another god.


Hmm... I'm inclined to agree.

A devout Chaotic Evil character would also be following his/her God's Law and the doctrine of the sect they are a member of, but that doesn't automatically make them Lawful Good. Keep in mind that very few people would actively categorize themselves as 'evil', especially those following holy tenets.

Alignment is how a person's actions are perceived by the majority of the population. Bonus points if you're triggering a discussion of whether trying to convert members of an Evil society to Good would technically be a Chaotic act since you'd be convincing people to go against their communal norm and the government keeping order in it.
Azraile
member, 328 posts
AIM: Azraile
Dislexic
Sat 19 Jul 2014
at 23:44
  • msg #53

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

This is getting off topic into an alinement discussion, should probably make a new thread for such.
steelsmiter
member, 1033 posts
GURPS, FFd6, Pathfinder
NO FREEFORM!
Sun 20 Jul 2014
at 01:54
  • msg #54

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Perhaps it's a little off topic, but due to its relevancy in annoying DMs, I'd say it's not entirely off topic.
Azraile
member, 333 posts
AIM: Azraile
Dislexic
Sun 20 Jul 2014
at 05:58
  • msg #55

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

I think it warrants a new one though myself. It causes a lot of fights o.o
steelsmiter
member, 1036 posts
GURPS, FFd6, Pathfinder
NO FREEFORM!
Sun 20 Jul 2014
at 08:05
  • msg #56

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Azraile:
I think it warrants a new one though myself. It causes a lot of fights o.o

Not really. I've said enough to show that it is indeed a topic that annoys GMs, and don't plan on saying any more. So if you want a topic, I'm not stopping you, but I'm not going to make one. In any case the actual discussion of whether or not to start a new topic is in fact, entirely off topic.
This message had punctuation tweaked by the user at 08:18, Sun 20 July 2014.
swordchucks
member, 777 posts
Sun 20 Jul 2014
at 18:02
  • msg #57

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Anyway, on topic... pretty much pick any TV show or movie and make that the basis of your game without telling anyone and making it so skewed that they don't notice.  The more off the wall the better.  The whole point of the game, from the DM perspective, is then to see how long it takes the PCs to notice.

Bonus points if when they figure it out, they get at least briefly angry.  "What do you mean, we've spent the last year playing a Captain Planet game?"
tulgurth
member, 68 posts
Mon 21 Jul 2014
at 13:20
  • msg #58

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Want to annoy a group of players?  Teseract
Prowler.Jeff
member, 69 posts
Wed 23 Jul 2014
at 17:13
  • msg #59

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

swordchucks:
"What do you mean, we've spent the last year playing a Captain Planet game?"


Dude...that's kinda brilliant.  Much kudos on that one.
HornetCorset
member, 199 posts
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 00:20
  • msg #60

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to swordchucks (msg # 57):

You can kinda reverse that to mess with the GM. Arrange beforehand to make all of your characters based off of some television show or movie. I have a GM who got mad when we even suggested coming in one day and acting like Scooby and the gang. And this is the same GM who, just last night, agreed that one of the people in our group could make their character look like Bobba Fett. (Recently changed game systems, so new characters now.)
steelsmiter
member, 1074 posts
GURPS, FFd6, Pathfinder
NO FREEFORM!
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 00:24
  • msg #61

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

DM: Design a homebrew tabletop system to emulate Dynasty Warriors 5: Xtreme Legends. Use it for other games and settings :D
This message was last edited by the user at 00:25, Thu 24 July 2014.
srgrosse
member, 2214 posts
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 17:14
  • msg #62

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

The players need the power of a certain ancient sword that is said to have the power to seal the BBEG. They fight their way to the depths of the ancient necropolis, to find the sword placed upon the altar, and... discover that it looks like a fluffy pink bunny.
bigbadron
moderator, 14515 posts
He's big, he's bad,
but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 17:38

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

The party are seeking a magical weapon, the ancient Sword of Nephrezos, a blade which can be used to slay the Dark God who threatens their world.  They hear a rumour that it might be hidden in a nearby cave, and track down the crazy old fool who claims to have seen it.  Then, with the fool's directions, they make their way up into the mountains, and into the vast labyrinth of caves and tunnels, filled with some of the most inimical creatures known to man, elf, or dwarf.

After weeks of delving deep into the bowels of the mountain, and numerous deaths, they finally enter a cavern where they find an altar with a sword atop it, and on the blade is an inscription - Sword of Nephrezos.

Then, as they examine the weapon. revelling in their impending victory over the Dark God, they notice that there is an inscription on the other side of the blade...

Crafted by Thorgrimm Thorgrimmsson & Company.
Part of the 'Swords of Legend' limited edition collector series.
Number 4,752 of 5,000.

Agent 0013
member, 69 posts
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 18:10
  • msg #64

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to bigbadron (msg # 63):

This is the most amazing thing I've read on this site in a long time... Please tell me you've done this to your players before.
bigbadron
moderator, 14517 posts
He's big, he's bad,
but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 18:45

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

No. I haven't.  I thought of it when I was reading the post above mine, which set me thinking of fake magic items.
ShadoPrism
member, 578 posts
OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
Gamer-Disorder
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 20:09
  • msg #66

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

so many good ideas, so little time (and space) to use them in *WEG*
steelsmiter
member, 1084 posts
GURPS, FFd6, Pathfinder
NO FREEFORM!
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 20:38
  • msg #67

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to srgrosse (msg # 62):

I just want to say that my girlfriend would love that sword.
swordchucks
member, 790 posts
Thu 24 Jul 2014
at 22:26
  • msg #68

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

I'd be more amused to use the pink bunny sword and then play it deadly seriously from the point of view of the rest of the world.  One of the players, thinking it's a joke, hits someone with it and they go flying.  Maybe, however, it doesn't seem to affect the PCs the same way.  They go to fight the BBG and... he laughs at it as it affects him the same way it affects the PCs (which is barely).

Then he dies of a heart attack from the laughter.
Azraile
member, 346 posts
AIM: Azraile
Dislexic
Fri 25 Jul 2014
at 04:19
  • msg #69

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

Speaking of wrong swords ........

I was helping GM an game focused around running quests out of an arena, one of the people in it got an item called Uncle Steve's Whacky Sword on a quest.... It was a weak sword with a fair amount of chaos damage and had a chance to cause a random affect from the "Uncle Steve's Whacky Sword table" The table was hidden to players and had over 50 some affects some weak some very strong all off a 100 sided dice.

So.... the guy started to like it because lots of good things where happening and only a few bad things.... then he rolled a 100 on the swords chaos roll.....

Table said something like this:

100 - Make up something really chaotic and down right crazy, unimaginable, and just insane to happen that could never really happen otherwise.

so yah this was the post that followed:

 



you kill the two thiefts easly..... but when the blade comes down on the second thieft the ground starts to rumble and shake as skeletal hands burst from the arena floor pulling there bodies out of the soil... a small army of 9 skeletons 14 skeleton archers and 19 skeleton swordsmen rise up out of the ground and start walking torge the the last 3 thiefts..... and then... they stop...

......


......

....and start snaping there finger bones...? o.O


After a few moments of them snaping, quitly at first, and then progesivly lounder jaz music starts to play.....

The thiefs seams quite confused by this... as dose... well everyone......

Then the lights go out and spot lights apear circling around the arena as a very sexy voice starts signing....
Forty-eight years of livin'
An angel in disguise
Forty-eight years of lovin'
Smilin' with my eyes

As the lovely voice sings the lights circle around to focus and hold still on a skeletion thats rising up out of the ground on a stage in a riped and torn up dress that apears to be the sorce of the voice....
Forty-eight years of memories
Neatly tucked away
When daylight dies, I hear them rise
And dance upon their graaaaavessss.....


And with that all the lights in the arena come back on and the skeletons are in beat up zuit suits and start dancing and they sing with her!
Hup, Hup, they're in my closet now
What's that sound!?!
Hup, Hup, Hup, I'm trying to forsake em
Comin' from the dresser on a night as black as pitch?
Hup, Hup, they're in my dresser now
What's that sound!?!
Hup Hup Hup, I wouldnt wanna wake em
Comin' from the bureau, do I dare turn on the switch?

Them bones, them bones, them dry bones
All bleached and deathly white
I've got skeletons in my closet and
They're rattlin' toniiiiiight

Hup, Hup, theyre in my closet now
Hup, Hup, Hup, I'm trying to forsake em
Hup, Hup, they're in my dresser now
Hup Hup Hup, I wouldnt wanna wake em


She starts pointing to bones as she signs
The cheat bones connected to deceit bones
And thereby connected to lies
I-love-you's said indiscriminately make the sockets for the eyes
The love bones knock against the hate bones
And fingers click in time

The skeletons start snaping there fingers again as they dance around.
There won't be sleep for the weary tonight
Cause all those bones are mineeeee........


They start up with the main dance again after that though.
Hup, Hup, they're in my closet now
What's that sound!?!
Hup, Hup, Hup, I'm trying to forsake em
Comin' from the dresser on a night as black as pitch?
Hup, Hup, they're in my dresser now
What's that sound!?!
Hup Hup Hup, I wouldnt wanna wake em
Comin' from the bureau, do I dare turn on the switch?

Them bones, them bones, them dry bones
All bleached and deathly white
I've got skeletons in my closet and
Theyre rattlin' toniiiiiiight


After a bit more dancing they start to sink into the ground there signing fadding away....

Hup, Hup, theyre in my closet now
Hup, Hup, Hup, I'm trying to forsake em
Hup, Hup, they're in my dresser now
Hup Hup Hup, I wouldnt wanna wake em

Hup, Hup, they're in my closet now
Hup, Hup, Hup, I'm trying to forsake em
Hup, Hup, they're in my dresser now
Hup Hup Hup, I wouldnt wanna wake em






After that the skeletons burst into bone dust... they got exp and loot for them and they just stood there looking at each other with blank looks

The guy's partner then said "never, NEVER use that thing again."

And they promptly went home, wrapped it up, and barred it in the yard.

And of crouse I had a link to this as a reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDsoN48HI54

lol.... it was awesome.
Ameena
member, 28 posts
Fri 25 Jul 2014
at 22:06
  • msg #70

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

I've seen you post about that one before...did anyone else actually recognise the song, or did they think you made it up or something?
Azraile
member, 348 posts
AIM: Azraile
Dislexic
Fri 25 Jul 2014
at 22:15
  • msg #71

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

I linked the song when I did it so they could listen to it, like i said.

I just think it was the fumiest thing that it's not the fact they were told they might get negative levels from the sword that made them stop using it, it was the spontaneous Broadway style all skeleton musical from no where that made them never want to use the sword again.

"Why did you stop using that sword I thought it gave you lots and lots of gold, are you afraid it will curse you or blast you with negative energy or something?"

"no" *shivers* "It makes musicals.... "
This message was last edited by the user at 22:23, Fri 25 July 2014.
HornetCorset
member, 201 posts
Sat 26 Jul 2014
at 00:41
  • msg #72

Re: 1001+ ways to mess with your DM/Party

In reply to Azraile (msg # 71):

That is officially going on the list of Awesome Random Things I Want to Happen in My Campaigns that Probably Never Will.

Of course, part of it is player reaction. Last time I pulled something out of the list, it didn't go over like I had hoped at all.

I had a player whose character was very rich. Due to legal reasons, he had about the same level of spending money as a middle-class individual, but he lived in a giant mansion with an army of ninja bodyguards, et cetera, et cetera. Fact is, his house was a giant version of my grandfather's bait & tackle box--except, instead of fishing hooks, they were plot hooks. I always told him to never, ever, EVER go in the attic. I made it abundantly clear that he didn't want to go up there. Of course, the day came that he finally did. I described to him a horrible abomination standing before him: a strange, scaled creature with the body of a man, a head like some kind of horse, a... actually, I have a picture.

Then I showed him this: http://images1.wikia.nocookie..../42/JarJarHS-SWE.jpg

I had hoped that he would turn tail and run, never to go back there again. This is exactly the opposite of what happened. I was quite sad.
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