After looking over the teamwork feats for casters, I was dissatisfied, so I designed one of my own.  I'm looking for some input from longtime PF players regarding the feat.

Coordinated Casting (Teamwork Feat)
You have learned how to better coordinate the casting of your area-effect spells with your teammates.
Benefit:  When you cast a spell that affects an area, any teammates in the area of effect that also have this feat get a +4 bonus to any saving throws against that spell.  Additionally, if the saving throw is successful and would reduce damage by half, those teammates suffer no damage instead.
This message was last updated by a moderator, as it was the wrong forum, at 03:27, Wed 21 May 2014.

Nobody?  Dang, I would really like some input on whether or people think the feat is balanced.  For comparison...

---

Shielded Caster (Teamwork) Your allies cover you while you cast complicated spells.
  Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you receive a +4 competence bonus on concentration checks.
  If your ally is wielding a buckler or a light shield, this bonus increases by +1.
  If your ally is wielding a heavy shield or a tower shield, this bonus increases by +2.
  Finally, if an enemy threatening you and your ally has the Disruptive feat, or another ability that increases the DC of concentration checks, the amount of the increase is halved.

from the Advanced Players Guide (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG...table-teamwork-feats)

---

Combat Casting You are adept at spellcasting when threatened or distracted.
  Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability when casting on the defensive or while grappled.

from the Core Rules (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html)

---

The Shielded Caster feat grants a +4 bonus to all concentration checks (up to +6 if your ally has a shield) and reduces the penalty you take if your opponent has the Disruptive feat.

Combat Casting, on the other hand, only gives a +4 to concentration checks made to cast defensively or while grappled.

So, comparing my proposed Coordinated Casting teamwork feat to Shielded Caster, what do you guys think?  Anyone?

The problem with teamwork feats is that the players need to have it for it to be effective. Most players are going to take a feats that are good for their character, first.

What you might do is keep a pool of traits/feats/benefits to represent the group as a whole. Say that you have two of the PC's with evasion that tend to be in the front, if they have no problem with someone dropping a fireball to hit the enemy, then you might give the two a bonus to the save after doing it a few times or if they worked out some way of timing it (code word).

After the group had been together for a level, give them a low powered one (say a +1 to initiative) after 2 levels, a better bonus (maybe +2 to AC when fighting next to each other) after 4 levels, a great bonus (like your feat).

Now on your feat, the +4 bonus is like one feat but the no damage if they make the save might make it over powering since in effect you are giving them evasion.

Best class I can see with that feat is the inquisitor, because not only do they get free teamwork feats, but they gain the benefits of that feat even if no one else has it, or the cavalier (less familiar) who can grant others the feat while in combat.

Since the feat seems well constructed, the only thing I can suggest is add a range or something for those inquisitors and/or cavaliers that are pretty much the only classes I have seen take teamwork feats.

Like the others, I'm dissatisfied with these kind of feats in general. Most characters only take free ones they get. The only exception where twin characters I played with and they did more for flavor.

I'm not really looking for input on whether or not you like teamwork feats themselves, but rather on the balance of the feat I designed.  In this case, the GM is giving everyone a free teamwork feat, so yes... otherwise I might not have taken a teamwork feat at all... especially in the RPOL environment where I don't really know any of the other players.  A feat that relies on another character (or characters) having the same feat and using it in tandem with your character is a hard sell unless you know the other player(s) and know that they will coordinate with you.  This particular feat is, to me, a bit more useful in that it allows characters with area-of-effect spells to use them a bit more indiscriminately.

As for it granting Evasion, it only grants it vs. your teammate's spells, which is a far sight less powerful than granting it against enemy spells, especially when you consider:

---

Selective Spell (Metamagic) Your allies need not fear friendly fire. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG...d/advancedFeats.html)

Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.

Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell. A selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

Spells that do not have an area of effect do not benefit from this feat.

---

True, this feat does require a spell slot one level higher, but it doesn't require a saving throw at all, much less an "evasion clause."  It also does not require excluded targets to have the same feat.  Hmm, I probably should add the requirement in my feat that the spell be instantaneous and note that helpless allies do not benefit from the feat.

Then your DM is going to have the final say on the feat. Bring it up with him and see how he feels about it.

(Actually the evasion would make it more powerful as the other players would have less to worry about dropping a powerful spell on top of everyone. Is it going to be limited to Reflex saves or any spell? Might need to fine tune the wording as you could drop a cloud kill/black tentacle spell and they can fight in its area with no problem.)

Well, it honestly doesn't seem like a teamwork feat. Those most times get better the more people have the same feat. Your feat doesn't do that.

For a teamwork feat, I'd expect something like +1 to saves per person with feat in blast and those characters get the evasion.

How would the "evasion" aspect be more powerful when Selective Spell doesn't require a saving throw at all as excluded targets automatically take no damage (as opposed to a chance at taking full damage or no damage)?  I don't understand that.

And my GM has no say in the design of this feat as it is not for his campaign.  I am designing it for use in future campaigns that I run and I am looking for input on the balance of the feat itself as compared to other teamwork feats.

I agree that it needs an "instantaneous spells only" clause... so that's something to add to the refinement of the feat.

As for making it "Reflex only"... I might could see that for the evasion-like aspect... or possibly not.  That's another aspect that might need refining.

In a way, it does get better the more people have the feat:  it allows more mobility to more people while still allowing the casters to drop AoE spells when needed with a reduced chance of frying your allies.

The idea of the feat is not coordinating with the other people in the blast, but rather coordinating with the caster (a signal or warning or they just recognize the verbal components well enough to allow them to know the spell is coming and give them a better chance to react to the spell and resist / evade it).

Most teamwork feats, however, do NOT increase their numerical effect(s) when more people have the feat:

• Allied Spellcaster - a +2 bonus only, not per ally with the feat
• Coordinated Defense - a +2 or +4 bonus only (based on the size of the opponent relative to you and your ally); not increased by multiple allies
• Coordinated Maneuvers - ditto
• Duck and Cover - no numerical increase, but you do get to select from any reflex save of adjacent allies with the feat
• Lookout - no numerical increase, but having multiple allies with the feat does grant it a better chance to trigger
• Outflank - no improvement for having more than one ally
• Paired Opportunists - "paired" ... need I say more?
• Precise Strike - flat d6, no bonus for multiple allies with the feat
• Shield Wall - no additional bonus for having more than one ally with feat
• Shielded Caster - ditto
• Swap Places - no numerical bonus, but having multiple allies with the feat does grant additional opportunities to use it and greater utility of where you move

I believe that's all of them from the Advanced Players Guide... in fact, the only feat I can think of, off-hand, that improves when more than one ally has the feat is Shake it Off... though there may be others.
This message was last edited by the user at 15:23, Thu 22 May 2014.

Try looking at this feat: http://www.archivesofnethys.co...=Thuvian%20Grenadier

It's pretty close to what you're trying to do, just with splash weapons instead of spells.

In reply to elecgraystone (msg # 10):

Wow... that one is MUCH more powerful than mine...

In reply to Verisimilitude (msg # 11):

True, but there are two things to remember.
#1 It has a feat prerequisite so it's harder to get into.
#2 It's a LOT easier on paperwork.

For #1, how about Combat Casting or Lightning Reflexes. Then limit the spells to instantaneous area effect spells that require a reflex save.

For #2 that's a lot of saves and damages you don't have to worry about. For me, a teamwork feat has to be around this powerful to make it worth taking it over feats that are directly useful to my character.

Having a feat prerequisite for a teamwork feat, in my opinion, makes them really really unattractive.  Considering that it already requires two or more people in the group taking the feat for it to work at all, even a single prerequisite means burning a total of 4 (or more feats) for the effect.  In addition, the idea of this feat is to allow some coordination between casters and the rest of the group, which is why there would be no meta-magic feat prerequisites or spellcraft / knowledge (arcana) prereq's... (ditto for combat casting... a fighter shouldn't have to take combat casting to be able to anticipate when his wizard is going to fireball)

Hmmm, if (IF!) I were to add a feat prereq, I'd say, maybe...

  Requires:  Any other teamwork feat


I don't see how it's easier on paperwork though.  Explain that one, please...
This message was last edited by the user at 04:28, Fri 23 May 2014.

#1 Notice the feats I suggested. Both are useful feats in their own right, making it less of a burden. I was suggestion giving the option of either feat (not both) so casters could take the one and others could take the other. (see the feat I linked that gives the option of taking 1 of two feats to qualify) It's not like I suggested Endurance...

Also I picked those because they made sense. Combat caster is about casting magic in combat and Lightning Reflexes is about avoiding area attacks. I don't see how something like Brutal Grappler (grappling teamwork feat) would help casting aim or dodging.

#2 Paperwork: Excluding someone means no save so no tracking different save bonuses and it also means no damage rolls (and 1/2 damage) needed. Each person with the feat +1 for the caster don't do paperwork for the attack. Nothing to forget or calculate, you're just immune.

Eh, I guess I just don't see a saving throw and either full or no damage as paperwork.  That's 2 seconds of mental calculation.

The reason another teamwork feat would be a good prerequisite is because it's training yourself to coordinate with your allies.  In the case of Brutal Grappler, it's not the grappling aspect of the feat that helps prepares you, it's the aspect of coordinating with your teammate.  Requiring the Combat Casting feat as a prerequisite of the caster and Lightning Reflexes as a prerequisite to benefit from the bonuses granted by the feat might be interesting... but it's a lot more paperwork.