I am making my own game system. Right now the magic system is in progress and I am looking for input and advice.

I need three things,
Feedback on what I got so far,
Suggestions to make it better or for a better system,
Info on what players like or hate about other systems.

My game system is skill based with feats, called Features.

The magic system stands thus at the moment,
A caster takes a feature which grants access to a magic casting tradition. The traditions vary by allowing access to different schools of magic at different difficulties (example, Wizardry has easier access to evocation spells like fireball, while Witchcraft has easier access to necromancy, which includes healing.)

I am making magic similar to the d20 WoD so the caster selects target, duration, effect, etc. Each of these have two costs, the mana cost, and complexity which determines how difficult the spell is to cast and thus chance of success.

I was considering treating each effect as a skill, allowing a caster to learn and practice individual effects. But it seems heavy, so I was also looking at treating each school as skill, but this allows a caster who has never cast fire to do it well just because they use lightning magic a lot. I also considered using each magic tradition as a skill, but that leaves every caster of each tradition too similar.

Ideas, comments, suggestions...
This message was last updated by a moderator, as it was the wrong forum, at 05:15, Fri 18 Apr 2014.

I would separate magic "skills" from "regular" skills, unless you want people to use whatever skill points they're given in whatever area they desire (dumping everything in magic, dumping nothing in magic, dumping an even mix all over the place).

Well, skills are advanced by group, or individually already (testing both. I like the individually better, but by group is less info tracking.) So either way, skill points are a non-issue.

Basically, every encounter (or day) that a skill gets used, the player gains advancement for that skill/group.

Is magic common? That is, would it be taught in a public school? Or is some or all of it a matter of one's makeup like, say, perfect pitch? Or is magic hard to learn, restricted to a few.

Are spells easy to come by? Would a D&D 7th-levell wizard be as rare as, say, a first-string NBA player?

My intent right now is to develop a system flexible enough to handle a variety of answers to those questions.

In fact, I have a default setting, but I am putting into making the system work outside it. Basically similar to how d20 has multiple settings, only I am making the system that flexible to begin with instead of making one setting then adapting it to others later. I want the system to be stand alone then add chapters for specific settings.

Right now I just need the rules for actually casting spells, which is separate from determining how many can be cast (I use a fatigue mechanic similar to spell points), or how easy to learn (depends on setting and magic tradition).

The idea of "every day a skill is used, it gets advanced" sounds cool, but I remember the old Hero Quest games, err they were later renamed Quest for Glory.  Anyway, I'd just go out in the woods for a week and jump over and over so that I could have a better skill when I went back in town.  All these years later I have no idea why I was trying to build up that skill, but I remember telling my little brother (multiple times, if I'm being honest), "Ok, I'm going to go make myself a sandwich.  I need you to sit here and press this button so that the character jumps.  You have to keep pushing the button the whole time I'm gone, ok?  I can see the skill here, so I'll know if you didn't pus the button.  And this will make him really good at jumping, we'll be such great jumpers!"

Edit: And players will game the system too.  "So I have a week of downtime, right?  Ok, I'm going to go rain like a Dragonball Z character training for the next big bag evil guy fight!  Nonstop, day and night and day and night over and over!  Look, I can get buy on 6 hours of sleep, right?  Well, I can eat in a total of 15 minutes and bowel movements for 10 minutes, which means, heck, I'll just round up to 18 hours of training for 7 days.  Normal skill points are for a 40 hour week, but I'm dropping over a hundred hours a week, more like 115, so that's like three weeks of training in a week, right?  And then you said we have to take a boat, so I think I should be able to get a year of training in the four month boat ride, so I should really have maxed out these skills by the time the story resumes again, right?"  That's just the rational way to do it, anyway.  Speaking of rational things, have you read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality?  What if Harry Potter was a smart kid who read science fiction and choose Ravenclaw instead... it's a great story: http://hpmor.com/
This message was last edited by the user at 08:08, Fri 18 Apr 2014.

Have you considered looking at the Ars Magica system (4th edition is available for free from the publisher)?

- Spells are a combination of a verb (Create, Destroy, Transform, Control, Understand) and a noun (Animal, Plant, Human, Mind, Illusion, Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Magic).

- Your ability to cast spells depends on your skill with the relevant verbs and nouns. Be very good at one, and you can do most things related to it. Be average at most, and you can do a lot of minor things.

- You have pre-made spells with powerful effects, which require time and effort to learn or invent.

- You can try to spontaneously cast a spell, but its power will be much lower than what is available with pre-made effects.

- Permanent and powerful magic costs rare magical resources and requires rituals, limiting your ability to do these without preparation and planning.

- Casting spells tends to tire you, using a fatigue mechanic.

- 'Hedge' wizards or mages with specialties are treated as having access to a limited set of nouns and / or verbs, but being more skilled in their use.


It definitely seems like you could get some useful inspiration from this. Note that the 4e Ars Magica mundane combat system does not work, so there are improvements to be made.

No it isn't I'm afraid. Link on their website says file cannot be found...

In reply to Genghis the Hutt (msg # 6):

Well, the "or day" was really just for things that might not be tied to a specific encounter, such as crafting something. That way crafting ten tiny things doesn't give ten points in the same day.

Additionally, I take Mabinogi's view on this, a skill can't just be used, instead it has to be used with potential for a significant effect. AKA, swinging a sword at nothing, gains nothing.

Also, advancement is actually a dice roll to gain. The easier the skill use, the harder the chance to gain a skill point. Thus challenging use of skills are better because then one is more likely to gain a skill point.

Practice, practice, practice.  How many hours does a basketball player spend on a court outside of actual competition?  In real life someone might spend time lifting weights or running or whatever...  Perhaps the issue is being able to train non stop for hours on end without needing to rest; the ability improve without exerting oneself enough to fatigue?

EDIT:
1) while a general concept is realistic, can one produce the same with simple usable game mechanics?
2) while a general concept is realistic, is it fun to play?
This message was last edited by the user at 14:20, Fri 18 Apr 2014.

Generally, its more of an issue for computer games, though, I did present a solution for this to the Fallout Equestria team,  have a fatigue bar that takes a long time to recharge, and then give players a reason to avoid being caught with a depleted fatigue bar.

This is allot like how they do it in Elder Scrolls games.
But in a table top RPG I have a simple solution to this form of 'game hacking' - random chances for injuries over specified time frames, including in home injuries. Example: 'You just finished a long day of strength and cardio training and are taking a relaxing shower when you accidentally drop the soap, you bend over to pick it up, slip and slam your head in to a wall, then fall over and out of the bath tub, breaking your leg (or arm) in the fall. WHEN your found your rushed to the hospital, where you are stitched up and cast put in place - you are now out of the action for X months while you heal.'
This is of course a Botch level check, but such things do tend to put such power gamers in their place.

One dice I use a modified WoD type system of 5D10 with 10's counting as 2 successes and 1's canceling successes (10's first) or causing a botch if there are no successes or more 1's to number of successes. A resisted roll using this system is 2 such rolls done against each other with the one with more successes beating out the other.
It is also a good way to determine event or personality quirk levels using the common 6 diff range as a starting point.
Example: Character listed as 'paranoid' but your unsure of How paranoid. So you roll this set and going by the number of successes (or failures) you can determine its level.
1) mild, feelings of insecurity - 2) You sometimes feel like your being watched (this can also take place for those who feel a government or private sector force of some kind is out to get not only you but Everyone)- 3) you feel like your being spied on or sometimes see people watching you from the corner of your eyes. - 4) Someone or ones are looking for you, you know they are out there but your not sure who they are (or maybe you do but you think you know how to keep them at bay) - 5+) Everyone is suspect, your family and friends may have been replaced with look a likes and your enemies are very close. No one can be trusted. Ever.

I have put this one in place in several games I have run for the simple versatility of it.
This message was last edited by the user at 17:01, Fri 18 Apr 2014.

One of the things I liked and kept about d20 was the simple linear scale. When you roll, you get a number, the higher the number, the better you did. I even have a DC reference chart for how good it is at certain benchmarks. These DCs never change, 40 is about the max capability of real life humans, and it is that benchmark from the  beginning of the game to the end.

I like that better myself, I don't have to look at anything but the result to see how good the result was.

It can be used to make judgement on the severity of things as well, 0 is none at all, and 40 is fully to the hilt.

Of course I can name higher numbers as legendary, superhuman, supernatural, demidivine, deity, etc to handle players going that far, if I let them.

In any case, this is a bit off topic.

While I find some of the advice above neat to be sure - this doesn't necessarily "teach a man to fish."

1) Begin with the GOAL.

 -- Is the game light or heavy?
 -- Verisimilitude, Simulationist, Narrative, Action/Heroic?
 -- Epic or Gritty?

Obviously the above are not clear opposites/antonyms - but, they are good guiding words.

It's impossible to help define/work the mechanics for your game without these.

Let's begin with "Light" or "Heavy":

-- Figure the amount of book-keeping you want to force your players and GMs/Narrators to tolerate.

Let's consider DnD 3.x (I use this a lot because it is well recognized).

You have HP, AC, Attack-Types, Ammunition, Combat Maneuver values (for 3.75), Flanking/Flat-Footed, Status-Effects, and for casters -> memorized/consumed lists.

This list can range from 6-10 factors.  Many consider DnD to be the "middle of the road."  It uses most of the die-types, which can add to the complication-level, however; one is particularly more common.

If you compare yourself to these systems, and figure out where you want to "line-up", it becomes a lot easier to answer all the other questions.



----------Your specific scenario------------------

- Spells as Skills is not new, take a look at most Psionics systems (DnD) or Iron Heroes - this is how they handle magic.

- Variable skill availability (typically an outlook one gets from classless systems) is a great way for characters to become unique as opposed to cookie-cutters with decorations (which is what most class-based systems become.)

-- Determine what you want success rate of magic to be.  This is typically more easily decided if you answer the key-question others are asking above: rarity-level of magic.

If magic is supposed to difficult, complicated/rare (think Conan) then a starting success rate of 25% is reasonable.  If magic is tough to master, but anyone smart or dedicated enough can do it - 50% is reasonable.  Frequent and resonant throughout the world? 75%.

--- With these numbers in mind, you should be able to create your skill system accordingly.  Again, begin with the holistic questions about how gameplay should FEEL - and then work your way down to the nuts and bolts.