RolePlay onLine RPoL Logo

, welcome to Community Chat

18:16, 19th April 2024 (GMT+0)

Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Posted by Alexei Yaruk-Mundhenk
truemane
member, 1824 posts
Firing magic missles at
the darkness!
Mon 24 Mar 2014
at 15:40
  • msg #13

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

What a fun challenge.

So let's see what we can do.

First off, our PC is a Mythic Hero of the Trickster path. That allows her access to the Fleet Charge ability, which allows her to move her movement as a Swift action (ie once per round, 13 times per day, assuming Mythic Tier 5), and also access to the Mythic Run Feat, which allows her to run 7x her speed AND access to Mythic Expeditious Retreat, which adds 40 to her movement.

So we're off to a good start.

Longstrider doesn't stack with Expeditious Retreat or a Monk's Movement Bonus. Nor with Boots of Striding and Springing. So we're leaving those out.

So here's the build:

Human CENTAUR (good find Skald), Brb1/Ardent1/Cleric1/Centaur2, Mythic Hero (Trickster, Mythic Tier 5)
Giver her the 'Quick' Trait from Unearthed Arcana, and she gets +10 speed and -1 Hp per level.

TRAIT
(I can't find it, but there's a Pathfinder trait that gives a +5 trait bonus to speed - if anyone can find the reference, please let me know)

FEATS
1st: Fleet of Foot (Player's Guide to Faerun Regional Feat, +10 untyped Land Speed)
3rd: Sprinter (+10 movement for a number of rounds per day equal to her Con modifier, more on that in a moment)
5th: Divine Vigor (+10 untyped land speed for Cha mod minutes)
Mythic Tier 1 Bonus Feat: Mythic Run
Mythic Tier 3 Bonus Feat: Speed of Thought
Mythic Tier 5 Bonus Feat: Dash (+5 feet, stacks with itself)

Mythic Power1: Mythic Magic (for access to Mythic Expeditious Retreat)
Mythic Power2: Mythic Feat (Dash)
Mythic Power3: Mythic Feat (Dash)
Mythic Power4: Mythic Feat (Dash)
Mythic Power5: Ability Enhancement (Con +2)

Mythic Power: Fleet Charge, 13 times per day (plus others that don't matter here)

Domains: Travel (+10 untyped bonus to land speed), Celerity (+10 untyped bonus to land speed)
1st Level Domain Spell: (Mythic) Expeditious Retreat, +40 enhancement bonus to land speed)

Ardent Mantle: Freedom (+10 untyped bonus to land speed)

Psionic Power: Skate (gives a +15 bonus to land speed, it's an enhancement bonus, but it doesn't stack BUT if you're going downhill it gives another +15 feet CIRCUMSTANCE bonus, so that does stack)

So the last thing we need is a +10 Con mod (to get maximum use out of the Sprinter. So let's assume an 18 to start, +4 for Centaur, +2 for Mythic Tier 2 and another +2 for Mythic Tier 4, +2 two more for the Enhanced Ability Mythic Power. Plus say +2 from an item. That's 30. So we're good.

So this is what it all looks like:

Centaur Base         50
Quick               +10
Fleet of Foot       +10
Sprinter            +10
Divine Vigour       +10
Speed of Thought    +10
Celerity Domain     +10
Travel Domain       +10
Freedom Mantle      +10
Trait Bonus          +5
Dash x4             +20
Skate               +15
Mythic Exp. Retreat +40
-----------------------
Grand total         210


Take all that, multiply it by 7 for Mythic Run and you get 1470 feet per round.

PLUS you add another 210 per Round for Fleet Charge (also, as part of the same power, she can make one attack on an opponent each round, just for lulz), and you get:

1680 feet, every round.

Times ten rounds is 16800 feet.

So three and change miles in a minute. Or just over 190 miles per hour.

EDIT: If you don't care much about Wealth by Level, you could add a Belt of Battle (Magic Item Compendium, 12000gp), which would give one extra Full Round Action per day, with which you could add another 1470 feet.
This message was last edited by the user at 15:51, Mon 24 Mar 2014.
st_nougat
member, 308 posts
Mon 24 Mar 2014
at 15:42
  • msg #14

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to The_Blob (msg # 10):

yup, you're right

that's what I get for trying to do math before I've had enough coffee.

I thought that seemed a lot fast
Jordan Task
member, 4977 posts
All glory to the
Hypnotoad!
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 00:16
  • msg #15

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

jaberwok:
Why do I suddenly have this image of the anime samurai who flashes along a line of guys who just stand there, and then suddenly all of them fall into pieces at once?


Don't worry. I saw the exact same thing. You're not crazy..... or maybe we both are.
Shiv
member, 255 posts
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 01:18
  • msg #16

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Jordan Task (msg # 15):

If you get a long enough line of Kobolds you could break the sound barrier or even hit Warp Speed.  Ill conceived 3.5 rules FTW!
st_nougat
member, 309 posts
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 01:58
  • msg #17

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Shiv (msg # 16):

that would be hard to do:

Cleave, d20 srd:
If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.


and great cleave works the same way except you can use it more than once in the round.

so no going a mile in a round thanks to a mile long line of kobolds
Genghis the Hutt
member, 2029 posts
Just an average guy :)
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 02:28
  • msg #18

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Frenzied Berserkers and Knight Protectors in Complete Warrior get a Supreme Cleave ability that lets them take a 5' step in between cleave attempts.  Supreme Cleave was a feat in 3.0, but it looks like it stopped being a feat in 3.5, possibly.

Races:
Xeph Burst ability +10' (1st) +20' (5th) +30' (9th) lasts 3 rounds, 3/day Competence
Thrikreen +30 Racial to Jump

Class Dips:
Horse Totem Barabarian 2 +10' and Run feat
Fist of the Forest 1 +10'
Duskblade 1 (2-3/day Swift Expeditious Retreat +30')
Cleric +10' (Celerity domain -- See below)
Bloodclaw Master 2 Tiger Claw Synergy +10' while in Tiger Claw stance

Traits/Feats:
Quick Trait: +10', -1HP/level
Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment (Celerity) +10 feet
Speed of Thought +10' Insight (Req's PP reserve (for Psionic Focus) and Wis 13)
Mental Leap +30 to Jump Check (Expend Psionic Focus)
Leap of the Heavens No increased DC for not running, +5 competence on Jump if you do.

Manuevers/Stances/Skill Tricks
Sudden Leap Swift action automatically Jump check, move the result of your check.
Leaping Dragon Stance +10 to Jump Checks, considered running
Extreme Leap Horizontal Jump of 10' or more allows you to move 10' as a swift action

Also see: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/q...and-higher-in-dd-3-5
Shiv
member, 256 posts
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 04:11
  • msg #19

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed


There is a Feat or Feature that bypasses that.  It may be called Supreme Cleave, but it's been years.
Genghis the Hutt
member, 2031 posts
Just an average guy :)
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 10:34
  • msg #20

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Ah - found that infinite speed combo.  Turns out it would have been easy to recall if I'd just looked up Pun-Pun from the start to see how he boosted his speed up.  "The Incarnum Speed supernatural ability of Duskling Barbarian substituion level in Magic of Incarnum (page 44). It gives you a +10' enhancement bonus to speed for each point of essentia invested in the ability. And since Pun-Pun has NI essentia and NI essentia capacity, he can boost his speed limitlessly. And thanks to his Free Move salient divine ability, Pun-Pun can move up to his NI speed as a free action once each round."

Pun-Pun is a thought experiment to take a fairly pathetic creature (kobold) and turn him into the supreme deity of D&D with infinite attack, saves, and skill checks and NI ability scores (or nigh-infinite, or as high as you want to go -- they aren't technically infinite in size but you can boost them to any number such as a googolplex).  He has every ability in the game, etc.  Of course nobody would ever try to play him in a game.
Zaxter
member, 36 posts
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 13:08
  • msg #21

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Genghis the Hutt (msg # 20):

Slightly off-topic, but just as an FYI they found a way some time ago to give him literally infinite stats instead of just NI. Using a loop with temporarily death-immunized minions and several castings of Shield Other, Pun-Pun could cause infinite damage to himself in one round (which, naturally, isn't enough to kill Pun-Pun). There's a feat that gives you +2 Str for every 50 damage you take, thus boosting his strength score to infinity. From there, Manipulate Form spreads it around to his other scores and Alter Reality makes it permanent.
truemane
member, 1825 posts
Firing magic missles at
the darkness!
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 13:14
  • msg #22

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Zaxter (msg # 21):

Completely off-topic, but I find the way that the Pun-Pun build is developed and refined over time just as hilarious as Pun-Pun himself.
The_Blob
member, 450 posts
01/01/84 so, 30-Male-EST
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 15:54
  • msg #23

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

now why couldn't they have used Meepo for that?

(win a 'no prize' if you know who Meepo is)

(win a BONUS 'no prize' if you know what a 'no prize' is)
truemane
member, 1826 posts
Firing magic missles at
the darkness!
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 15:57
  • msg #24

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to The_Blob (msg # 23):

I never won a no prize, despite my many attempts.
Crazy-Ivan
member, 611 posts
Calculus is better than
Integral e to the x
Tue 25 Mar 2014
at 18:32
  • msg #25

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Supreme Cleave won't work like you're thinking - characters are limited to one 5' adjustment per round, regardless of the source.
Skald
moderator, 516 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Wed 26 Mar 2014
at 13:25
  • msg #26

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

truemane ... great effort !  190mph is truly terrifying !  :>

Slight adjustment to my previous attempt, as I've since discovered that the Centaur gets Run as a bonus Feat, allowing me to take another Fleet Feat (multiple instances are allowed and stack) and make the distance !  Yay !

Barbarian 1/Cleric 2 Centaur (+2 ECL per 3.5 Savage Species, so assuming similar for PF) = 5th level

50' base move (Race)
+10' non-specific bonus for Fast Movement (Barbarian 1)
+10' non-specific bonus for Travel Domain (Cleric 1)
+30' enhancement bonus for Expeditious Retreat (Exploration Subdomain Cleric 1 Domain spell from APC; lasts 1 minute per level)

+Fleet Feat (CHR 1) = +5' move per round (non-specific bonus)
+Fleet Feat (CHR 3) = +5' move per round (non-specific bonus)
+Run Feat (Bonus) = 5 x move per round

50+10+10+30+5+5= 110' x 5 = 550' feet per round or 110 squares, so covers 1056 squares in 9.6 rounds, or 1100 squares/ in 1 minute, or just over 62mph.
The_Blob
member, 451 posts
01/01/84 so, 30-Male-EST
Wed 26 Mar 2014
at 14:51
  • msg #27

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Skald (msg # 26):

isn't a 'base' (no class levels) centaur a 5th or 6th lvl racial character?

4HD+2ECL=6

it's been a while...
Sehlysdre
member, 1 post
Wed 26 Mar 2014
at 16:06
  • msg #28

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Paizo sources only (Not PFS legal, as catfolk aren't allowed in PFS):

Race:
Catfolk (ARG, 30' base speed)
Sprinter (ARG, default catfolk racial trait, +10' racial bonus on run/charge/withdraw)

Classes:
Barbarian 1 (CRB, Fast Movement, +10' untyped)
Oracle of Flame 1 (APG, Cinder Dance, +10' untyped) [Any curse except Lame]
Cleric 1 (CRB+APG, Exploration Subdomain, +10' untyped)

Feats:
Catfolk Exemplar (ARG, Fast Sprinter, increase Sprinter to +20' racial bonus)
Run (CRB, 5x Run speed)

Spells:
Expeditious Retreat (CRB, +30' enhancement, 1st level cleric spell from exploration subdomain)

Total:
30 + 20 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 30 = 110' x 5 = 550' run speed at 3rd level
5th level can add Fleet feat for 5' more base to total 575' run speed

The only other requirement is Wis 11 to be able to cast the spell.
Skald
moderator, 517 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Thu 27 Mar 2014
at 14:36
  • msg #29

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to The_Blob (msg # 27):

I think you've found the fatal flaw in my cunning plan.  I just read the level adjust and ignored the Hit Dice, so ECL would be 6 (exactly as it says in Savage Species).  D'oh !  Back to the drawing board.  :<

H'mmm - on a different tack, do abilities/Feats stack with Polymorph effects ?

Could drink a potion of Beast Shape I (750GP for 3rd level Wizard spell) to take on the form of a Cheetah which has 50' move and the Sprint ability (1/hr Charge 10 x normal speed = 500')

So Human BBN1/CLR2

50' in Cheetah form
+10' non-specific bonus for Fast Movement (Barbarian 1)
+10' non-specific bonus for Travel Domain (Cleric 1)
+30' enhancement bonus for Expeditious Retreat (Exploration Subdomain Cleric 1 Domain spell from APC; lasts 1 minute per level)

+Fleet Feat (CHR 1) = +5' move per round (non-specific bonus)
+Fleet Feat (CHR 3) = +5' move per round (non-specific bonus)
+Run Feat (Race) = 5 x move per round

Cast spell, drink potion and wooosh !

50+10+10+30+5+5= 110' x 5 = 550' per round or 5500' in one minute, plus an extra 450' in the sprint round (I won't x10 any of the adjustments, though an argument could be made) = 5950' or 119 squares which is an average speed of 67.6 mph - and if sprint in last round, then can attack too !  :>

Now that's a 3rd level character, but hinges very much on whether all those adjustments are allowed on the changed form.
Zaxter
member, 37 posts
Thu 27 Mar 2014
at 14:48
  • msg #30

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Skald (msg # 29):

Unfortunately you wouldn't get the cheetah's Sprint ability, since it's not one of the abilities Beast Shape I says you can get. Cheetah was my first thought when I saw the challenge as well. I still managed to make it work with some shapeshifting, though.
Skald
moderator, 518 posts
Whatever it is,
I'm against it
Thu 27 Mar 2014
at 15:03
  • msg #31

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Ah well - still make's the mile, even without the extra 450', if the other adjustments are valid.  Good news is 3rd level ... bad news is that mad dash is a one-off, as once the potion is drunk it's gone, unlike Zaxter's earlier shape shifting effort.

Actually ... wonder what the LA is on a quickling PC:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestia...stings/fey/quickling
Sehlysdre
member, 2 posts
Thu 27 Mar 2014
at 15:56
  • msg #32

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Let's go to 4th level and add some wands:

Race:
Catfolk (ARG, 30' base speed)
Sprinter (ARG, default catfolk racial trait, +10' racial bonus on run/charge/withdraw)

Classes:
Barbarian 1 (CRB, Fast Movement, +10' untyped)
Oracle of Flame 1 (APG, Cinder Dance, +10' untyped) [Any curse except Lame]
Cleric 1 (CRB+APG, Exploration Subdomain, +10' untyped)
Druid 1 (CRB)

Feats:
Catfolk Exemplar (ARG, Fast Sprinter, increase Sprinter to +20' racial bonus)
Run (CRB, 5x Run speed)

Wands:
Aspect of the Stag (APG, 1 charge, CL 7, Druid 4, cost 420gp) +20' untyped, 1min/lvl
Expeditious Retreat (CRB, 1 charge, CL 2, Wizard 1, cost 30gp) +30' enhancement, 1min/lvl
Ward of the Season (ARG, 1 charge, CL 12, Druid 3, cost 540gp) +30' untyped, 1rnd/lvl
Kiss of the First World (ISM, 1 charge, CL 11, Druid 4, cost 760gp) +20' untyped, 1rnd/lvl

Use AotS then ER then WotS then KotFW then run like the wind:

Total:
30 + 20 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 20 + 30 + 30 + 20 = 180' x 5 = 900' run speed at 4th level
9000' in 10 rounds (102.3 mph)

Total cost for 10 rounds of speed: 1,750 gp, well below a 4th level character's expected wealth. (And you have no stat requirements, as wands don't need you to be able to actually cast the spell, just have them on your list.)
Fireinthahole
member, 32 posts
Fri 28 Mar 2014
at 03:22
  • [deleted]
  • msg #33

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 05:15, Fri 28 Mar 2014.
nadrewod999
member, 2 posts
Mon 7 Apr 2014
at 06:33
  • msg #34

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to Zaxter (msg # 21):

I love the idea of an insanely grotesque stab (since it deals so much damage) being used in a roundabout way to give a Kobold infinite Charisma, gaining the ability to convince anyone of anything.  He has the power to call a summit of every king in the realm and convince them all to follow his orders, and then convince everyone else in the realm that it is a good idea, even when he starts making crazy demands.
The_Blob
member, 463 posts
01/01/84 so, 30-Male-EST
Wed 9 Apr 2014
at 22:50
  • msg #35

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

In reply to nadrewod999 (msg # 34):

bet he has a tiny moustache
The_Blob
member, 464 posts
01/01/84 so, 30-Male-EST
Wed 9 Apr 2014
at 22:56
  • msg #36

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

Isn't there a feat/class ability that allows you to do extra melee damage based on how much (un?)used movement the character has for the round?
Genghis the Hutt
member, 2068 posts
Just an average guy :)
Thu 10 Apr 2014
at 00:22
  • msg #37

Re: Pathfinder: A thought experiment on speed

There was something about getting a bonus to damage depending on how much you'd moved during the round.  I remember some speculative kidding that this was perhaps why Yoda ran away from Dooku, raced around the room, then ran back and attacked again in that Star Wars movie.
Sign In