In reply to Balir Ironhide (msg # 865):

It's a book from Gaming Ballistic. The rules are also included in the Hall of Judgment DF supplement that's been kickstarted a while back.

In reply to Jendrich (msg # 867):

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/298466

As Jendrich mentioned its Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, by Gaming Ballistic LLC and is both sold on it's own (https://gamingballistic.com/pr...grappling-pdf-dfrpg/) and is included in the reprinted DFRPG Boxset (so doubly officially endorsed by Kromm*) and in Hall of Judgement (the first of Gaming Ballistic's† Nordlond adventures series for DFRPG).

Gaming Ballistic's shop:
https://gamingballistic.com/shop/

Fantastic Dungeon Grappling was originally a spinoff D&D product called Dungeon Grappling aimed fixing grappling in D&D, it was rather edition neutral if I recall (I don't own it), then Douglas Cole (Gaming Ballistic) teamed up with Kromm (Sean Punch, GURPS Line Editor) and brought his grappling system to GURPS as GURPS Martial Arts Technical Grappling, 47 pages of switching grappling into a streamlined system for GURPS (it's that long because it address all the advantages, disadvantages, techniques, etc that need to be tweaked to fit the new grappling system).  Fantastic Dungeon Grappling is only 8 pages as DFRPG has far less Advantages, Disadvatnages, and Techniques than GURPS Basic + Martial Arts...

It's a simple, streamlined, and yet still robust grappling system.  gwythaint doesn't use it, because it's not a book everyone has.


* Sean has said he'd consider using in GURPS 5e if didn't slaughter so many sacred GURSPSian cows...
† Where even moar streamlined down to 4 pages.


Maybe, but you only live once, can you really afford to pass up the bragging rights?  :P


It's the Armed Grappled Technique, page 68.  I extrapolated most of the relevant rules for doing it with a pick in the post above.

It's really a set of rules spread across four Techniques:  Armed Grapple, Bind Weapon pg 68, Entangle pg 71 (flexible weapons only), and Hook pg 74.  Each Technique has it's own subset and different modifiers, what I was looking at was "holding a foe in place with a stuck pick" which is 'pretty much' Armed Grapple.

It's one of the reasons I prefer Technical Grappling, all these disparate subsystems are streamlined under one set of rules and simplified... but TG requires a whole different way of looking at grappling and I understand why most GMs don't bother switching over.


Sidenote Balir:  Don't forget Lifting ST adds to grappling ST, so resisting it breaking free and attempts to make a takedown (which would be a ST based weapon skill roll since you're using a weapon).



The Vamp get's -4 penalties to DX, so if Balir is correct that it's stronger than him, the vamp isn't going to really be held back (but it might roll poorly on it's DX based skills, like attacks, and stuff), but it might win any ST tests (like breaking free, deciding to walk away with Balir's pick, or even Balir as well if doesn't let go - not sure how stronk the vampy is).  Grappling a stronger foe is a dangerous thing if you aren't lucky or well trained, just look at teh casual ease Jednesa wanders through foes in combat making grapples like she's a highly skilled combatant when she really isn't (Jednesa makes up for only having good skills, 14-16s, by being stupidly strong, ST 30+, and even more stupidly tough, DR 10 and High Pain Threshold).

Balir might be better off ripping free and then sticking the vamp again, but I know what crazy bullshit I'd try to pull...  I mean with Jareth (because he's crazy and dumb sometimes), Jednesa (because she's built for it), and Stenet (because sometimes it's the correct thing, even if he isn't built for grappling, yet).  My other characters are not grapplords (okay, Jareth isn't a grapplord, he's just... yeah, he was that kid growing up).
This message was last edited by the player at 18:23, Sun 06 Feb 2022.

a critical hit by Aethul nullified the need for an argument there! Now why were silvered weapons a good idea?

@Jareth - TY, your commentary/help is awesome as always. I love this little community! Just want to give it a hug. ha!
In passing, how do you ever get enoug CP to have ST30+??? That alone is 250% of my total character build CP! (It's fine if you don't want to comment; just expessing my, well, jaw bouncing along the ground.)

@Narrator - Can't recall if I said already (large G&T + half bottle of wine don't aid me there) but the community you have going here is amazing, and TY so much for all your work, enthusiam and, well, just 'all the stuff' here. IMO GMs deserve much more praise than they get, and you're way out in front there..
This message was last edited by the player at 19:55, Sun 06 Feb 2022.

In reply to Hannatti (msg # 871):

Thank you!

In reply to Narrator (msg # 872):

two interesting ways to handle the cold iron vs fey issue:
I have already made some creatures that are magic dependent have dread, weakness, or vulnerability to meteoric iron; Douglas Cole of Gaming Ballistic instead gives them injury resistance (a damage divisor, in levels)to them for non iron, non steel weapons like wood, stone, bronze, ivory, bone , silver, and orichalcum.
I will adopt some of thse adjustments,  in particular,  fo his version of kobolds; being resistant to damage from thorns and stones make them powerful in their home environment.

In reply to Narrator (msg # 873):

Hmmmm resistance to stones, including stone missile and sling stones, presumably. Makes slings even less attractive...

Nothing will ever erase the attraction of a ranged weapon that costs next to nothing and uses (potentially) free ammunition.

That said, I may have to buy Martial Arts, just to see if there's something about slinging darts (kestrosphendone).  It's clearly a real world thing (using the same sling you'd use to chuck a fist-sized river cobble) -- a dart like a crossbow bolt with a quarter pound of ballast and a broadhead, and easily three times the range and higher velocity than you could give with your arm alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mMUOZZBDuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ-_0uGIL1c

For "True Fae" or The Nobility (if you prefer) that's one thing.  For common Fae, like Pixies, Fauns, Leprechauns, being cut off from mana already has an affect, they slowly die.  But getting cut, bludgeoned, or stabbed with meteoric iron should be no worse than iron (mostly because they have a write up that doesn't include anything more).

Now, having meteoric iron in a common Fae long term might cause a slow "poisoning" like, but it's cyclic rate should be days or hours, not minutes, and be treatable with Divine or Chi Esoteric Medicine  or Surgery (say to cut out an arrow head, or clean a shattered knife blade from a wound).  I suppose having one ingestion powdered meteoric iron might be pretty deadly...

i've been toying around with a renegade ninja, character. the templates are pretty decent, but it's still really hard to do it with 250. 300, yes, because those 50 points are basically skills. lol
This message was last edited by the player at 02:35, Tue 08 Feb 2022.

They do not, closest they have is the Plumbatta, but Low-Tech has the Sling Dart.

This also uses the sling skill. But unless you have considerable ST, the lack of accuracy of the weapons makes them of little use.

In reply to Clarence Montague (msg # 879):

Why does ST have anything to do with accuracy?

In reply to Oly (msg # 880):

It increases range, as well as increasing damage a lot more (sling damage is based on Swing, not thrust) making it more useful when it hits. I don't have to hit as often if I do a bucket of damage when I do thinking.

Well Yes and No, slinging stones that don't hit will get you killed fairly quickly  as the enemy tires of those swishing by; much better to be able to hit too.  Urrun is a good example of this. He's pretty accurate and the stones can do 2D+3 Crushing.

In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 877):

DF 12 has a ninja (and assassin) write up

https://www.google.com/url?sa=...4p5Q168SJGdELR1nzz4_

[Private to Chye Isuel: a search will lead to a sketchy download link]

Hmm.  A vampire with a silver ring.  Probably okay as long as it's just a vulnerability...

In reply to Narrator (msg # 883):

[Private to GM: i acquired dungeon fantasy ninjas, swashbucklers, barbarians,clerics, and guilds]

In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 885):

did you ever get the stuff from the facebook group, Chye?

In reply to Narrator (msg # 886):

the viking stuff? i looked at it, but wasn't keen.

In reply to Chye Isuel (msg # 887):

Notices the Gurps 4E books: Magic: Plant Spells and Magic: Death Spells. Are these spells and perks/quirks/advantages available to any player, or do we need to quest to get some of these spells? Also noting the additions to the Druid spell list...:)

Following on from the discussion on slings, how much would a cornucopia pouch of balanced, silver coated sling bullets (usually worth $2.5) cost?
This message was last edited by the player at 01:47, Fri 11 Feb 2022.

Okay, I can see silvering, especially the lead ones -- but how in the world would you balance a sling bullet?  Or perhaps more relevantly, how could something the size and shape of an egg not be balanced?

Technically, cast bullets (and shaped stones) are already considered balanced, that's why they get a +1 to hit over unshaped stones*... but they could be better balanced, but realistically not at TL4 levels of technology.

However, it's DF so (generally) everything goes and the line reads "projectiles" and both shaped stones and bullets are under that listing  (unshaped stones are not treated as 'projectiles' for weapon modification rules... I'd allow it, but, first they must become shaped stones, then apply modifiers...  I'd also allow Silvering of unshaped stone, but you're paying the cost as though they were shaped stones, but that's me and I'm the sneaky GM who might have such a concept as "cold stone, unshaped by the hands of man" as a weakness and if the PC wanted to mess with that by silvering an unshaped stone, that's their call, we can split hairs about whether Pippin counts as a man being a hobbit or if Éowyn by acting as male had violated ancient custom and thus should, by mystic law, be considered a man, or if the Witch-king of Angmar were talking a lot of shite...).

Ahem, right.

Oh, and Silvering is also explicitly allowed for 'projectiles'.

* Free range stones are actually -1 to hit due to being "unbalanced".


PS:  Don't forget, you can Balance both your Bow and it's Arrows... damn cheaty-cheaty Scouts...  I blame the Elves for this one.  Chicks like Leggylass clearly wooing the GM with free pizza got the rules changed in their favor.

Anything in Death Spells or any of the Dungeon Magic Thaumatology styles needs to be quested; plant spells can be got by druids and clerics of agriculture.


Atm, Christine is going on a Master of the 5 magics quest to learn Pyromancy.