I'm on board with that.

I was trying to vote for eastern/oriental and western/frontier.  But if we weren't using the slash categories, then I thought eastern and western were the best.

so you can count my vote for whichever of those is winning, or just ignore my vote.  It isn't that big of a deal.

Without any split votes, the Asian, Eastern and Oriental vote looks to be:

Eastern: 4 votes
Oriental: 1 vote
Eastern/Oriental: 4 votes
Eastern/Wuxia: 3 votes

So depending on where Gladiusdei and Akrim go, it could mean Eastern, Eastern/Oriental, or Eastern/Wuxia until there are more votes or the voting for that specific category closes.



Assuming that (which, please excuse me Akrim if I do so erroneously), that puts Eastern at 5.  Assuming we go with whichever is winning for Gladiusdei's vote at that point, that puts 6 votes for Eastern.  Which is a lot of assuming.

I may only just be jumping in on this discussion but i have been following it all along, i havn;t spoken out as for most genres i don;t believe it to be an issue. However if i'm allowed to vote on this last one i think that Eastern/Oriental is the best option prvided.

But i think its completly wrong. a more apropriate would be Oriental/Wuxia, which i believe hadn't been suggested. sorry if this complicates matters but it needed ot be said.

all of the generes seem to fit but this one seems to be deviating from what it set out to be from the start through more and more political debate.

If people are willing to contemplate another catagory please add it if not then put me in for Eastern/Oriental

Yes "Oriental/Wuxia" is good to put forward, it hasn't been before.  Though the previously unpopular Wuxia was put forward so we could avoid Oriental.  But whatever has the most votes... has the most votes!

Western/Frontier is already locked in, so I'll take gladiusdei's vote as for "Easter/Oriental".

I'm going to eliminate "Oriental" on its own while I'm at it, it's only got the one vote.  Sorry Seahawk, and anyone else who's vote I've eliminated along the way, please do vote for your next favourite option.

By my count we have:

23)  Asian, Eastern, Oriental - New

• Eastern - ErrantKnight, Brygun, jmkool, Lunarius
• Eastern/Oriental - adrasteia1, Shannara, FallingMorning,  erbridge, gladiusdei
• Eastern/Wuxia - arkrim, bigbadron, jmurrell, Skald, jase
• Oriental/Wuxia - PushBarToOpen
  Options no longer available - Do not include, Asian, Asian/Eastern, Asian/Oriental, Exotic Culture, Oriental

Pretty much a 3-way tie atm

Would it be racist to say we have a Mexican standoff over this Eastern/Oriental/Wuxia debate?

*rimshot drumbeat*

I'm going to change from 'undecided' on the name to voting for Eastern/Wuxia please

So:

23)  Asian, Eastern, Oriental - New

• Eastern - ErrantKnight, Brygun, jmkool, Lunarius
• Eastern/Oriental - adrasteia1, Shannara, FallingMorning,  erbridge, gladiusdei
• Eastern/Wuxia - arkrim, bigbadron, jmurrell, Skald, jase, Low Key
• Oriental/Wuxia - PushBarToOpen
  Options no longer available - Do not include, Asian, Asian/Eastern, Asian/Oriental, Exotic Culture, Oriental

This message was last edited by the user at 15:10, Thu 06 June 2013.

I'll shift my vote from the one that clearly wouldn't win, to my second choice, given what is already locked in.  Given that I had to google Wuxia to find out what it even is, I don't feel it is a good choice (however apt it may be).  Besides the fact that I don't feel it to be apt anyway.

23)  Asian, Eastern, Oriental - New

• Eastern - ErrantKnight, Brygun, jmkool, Lunarius
• Eastern/Oriental - adrasteia1, Shannara, FallingMorning,  erbridge, gladiusdei, jmkool
• Eastern/Wuxia - arkrim, bigbadron, jmurrell, Skald, jase, Low Key
• Oriental/Wuxia - PushBarToOpen
  Options no longer available - Do not include, Asian, Asian/Eastern, Asian/Oriental, Exotic Culture, Oriental

I'd rather shift my vote to Eastern/Wuxia than give any support to Oriental, even despite Wuxia making no sense in this context.

23)  Asian, Eastern, Oriental - New
Eastern - ErrantKnight, Brygun
Eastern/Oriental - adrasteia1, Shannara, FallingMorning,  erbridge, gladiusdei, jmkool
Eastern/Wuxia - arkrim, bigbadron, jmurrell, Skald, jase, Low Key, Lunarius
Oriental/Wuxia - PushBarToOpen
Options no longer available - Do not include, Asian, Asian/Eastern, Asian/Oriental, Exotic Culture, Oriental
This message was last edited by the user at 01:56, Fri 07 June 2013.

I just don't feel that Wuxia is a good fit, and I have two problems with it.  Firstly, I didn't recognize it, and had to google it to find out what it was.  Secondly, it refers specifically to martial heroes.  I think the point of the Oriental tag is to describe the setting, not the heroes.  I want a category that encompasses Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon type games and Aladdin settings, Samurai warriors and feudal Japanese imagery.

In reply to jmkool (msg # 271):

Not only that, but it refers specifically to Chinese martial heroes.  And I agree--it doesn't really allow for the mindset of the entire East, which as I've said before is a pretty good pool of choices to draw from.  I certainly wouldn't look at Eastern/Wuxia and think my Fantasy-Persia game would fit there, for example.

Edit:  Well, I agree save for the Oriental tag, obviously.  :D
This message was last edited by the user at 02:03, Fri 07 June 2013.

*shrugs*

I'd go Eastern again, except that then it doesn't have context to match Western, which has been changed to Western/Frontier.

Eastern/Wuxia may be kinda wonky, but no more wonky than Western/Frontier (and not as wonky as Eastern/Oriental). I'd rather two wonky categories match than have one stylized one way and the other stylized another.

That's just my two cents.
This message was last edited by the user at 02:18, Fri 07 June 2013.

In reply to arkrim (msg # 273):

That's honestly what I've resigned myself to, as well.

As have I, only I see no problem with Eastern/Oriental beyond the slash.  I've explained why I dislike Wuxia.  What makes you choose differently?

In reply to jmkool (msg # 275):

As have I and several others. See previous two or three dozen posts for answers. :P

I think because the word chosen to represent the style of story of the 'wild west' is western, it created a dynamic which makes one think that an obvious needed category to balance it, would be eastern.  The problem is that western doesn't mean.... Western Hemisphere culture, it means Wild West story lines.

At first I had to say that really, Western seemed to be the best description of the genre, but as the discussion of frontier came up, I found it had several advantages.  It clear some of the mis interpreted balance requirement for east/west.  It also was a decent term that helps encompass the obvious Serenity/Firefly example that is obviously related intentionally but obviously not the typical.

I also started considering, and it occluded to me that one could easily point out that western, in its more strict sense, if it were the core of the genre or element, represents a smaller timeframe and location than the Victorian genre.  Granted western is a relatively popular category, I think that realization pushes me to suggest the term 'western' shouldn't be the specific name used.

One of my questions, could each category be listed by one name but have a tooltip, (or link) listing some examples?  That way frontier could be the name.  But it would list, Westerns as a prime example, but Colonial being another potential option.  (Leaving the distinct possibility for a Frontier, Oriental, Historical game if someone had the knowledge an interest in the happenings on the fringes of the Chineese Empire in the old days)

I +1 that!  The tooltip already exists, in fact.  This may cause me to rearrange my votes (again).

In reply to LoreGuard (msg # 277):
I like the idea. But if we did that, I'd be MORE dead set on Western & Eastern rather than the alternatives simply because they're more easily recognizable and generically encompassing of terms for their genres.

BUT, given the tooltip, at least Frontier and Wuxia wouldn't be AS confusing/obscure as they are by themselves.

The question is: what do the moderators think of this idea?

There's already a tip.  It's not included as an on-hover as that requires it to preloaded, which blows out the size of the main menu source text.

Ditto

WTF is Wuxia? I've heard of it before, like 10 years okay. Seriously... we are looking for categories for joe-average to run a search engine on.

---

People are forgetting "Western" means Cowboys and Indians. Its not meant as a western hemisphere vs eastern hemisphere.
This message was last edited by the user at 11:45, Fri 07 June 2013.

In reply to Brygun (msg # 281):

I agree entirely.  I would love to keep my support with Eastern, but to do so would probably mean I'd have to cringe at Oriental every time I wanted to search for a game, especially if I were after something with an Eastern basis.

I've *never* heard of Wuxia before and while I'm certainly not a gaming expert by any stretch of the imagination I'd like to think that I have at least a small level of gaming knowledge.

---

I wouldn't mind seeing an rpol poll for the genre/category list with an announcement so that folks can vote rather than a dozen or so people deciding for the entire site. That said, if previous efforts have shown that only a dozen people voted (assuming the poll was announced) then maybe not such a good idea.

I could slap together an rpoll if jase wants to go that direction.

I'd love to see it go to a general vote, including the option to 'leave things the way they are'.

I know change is all well and good, but not to change is a perfectly relevant choice that sometimes gets left on the scrap heap because of the enthusiasm of a relative minority.  (Not saying this is the case here, just that it's something worth asking.) :)

Given the tooltip, I would strongly secure my votes for Eastern (and Western) as the most recognizeable terms.  Eastern broadly covers a wide set of very similar themes, and examples such as Wuxia and Oriental.

In reply to jmkool (msg # 285):

I concur. That would be the best option of those given so far. The tool tip makes Eastern an even better choice because it can encompass more genres. And it makes the / redundant since the other options can just be listed in the tip. So "Western" being better recognized as that ACTUAL name of the genre in movies and historical fiction would also be the better choice while frontier should be added to the tip.

The only / that nobody seems to want to eliminate is Action/Adventure. But that could be fixed with a tip as well, couldn't it?

I also agree that a poll might be better rather than just a handful of us.
This message was last edited by the user at 17:05, Fri 07 June 2013.